[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1047539]the proble is most peopel are basing this sweeping assumption from a litte or maybe no experiance personally. If you live in Oklahoma and you look at kung fu school in the mall taught by some white guy who wears a kung fu uniform and teaches 5 years olds then of course its going to be hookey crap, I employ you to look into a REAl school. and perhaps you will change your mind.
can I ask how many schoold you have joined to come up with your opinion?[/QUOTE]
The “assumptions” are based on the fact that 95% of all kung fu schools have nothing but forms and demos as any kind of evidence of what they do in training. Combine that with the fact that you’ve got a pretty big group of yahoos who claim they train without gear with “street without rules” techniques and take said techniques from the forms, and you’ve got a pretty good case for making this kind of assumption.
[QUOTE=SoCo KungFu;1047529]No the problem is that by and large 99.9999999 and more 9’s with the little arrow over it % of the TCMA’ers are in fact silk pajama wearing ballet dancers… And forms is the entirety of their training.[/QUOTE]
How many TCMA instructors have YOU actually trained with? You are making sweeping generalizations that I believe are unfounded.
All the TCMA instructors that I know personally have been using traditional and modern training methods for decades.
As many on this board do, you have created your own straw man to burn down. Before you created him, he didn’t exist!
I know of at least 11 TCMA schools in my area (Cleveland, Akron & Canton). None of them train only forms.
[QUOTE=mooyingmantis;1047561]I know of at least 11 TCMA schools in my area (Cleveland, Akron & Canton). None of them train only forms.[/QUOTE]
And how many of them are putting peope in the ring?
If you run a school in this day and age, and you don’t have at least a couple of guys who compete, you’re not running a fighting school.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1047564]And how many of them are putting peope in the ring?
If you run a school in this day and age, and you don’t have at least a couple of guys who compete, you’re not running a fighting school.[/QUOTE]
LOL! That is so naive. Do you assume that only peeps who can fight within a specific rule set are “fighters”? I prefer peeps who have stayed alive when there were no rules. I know several of these.
As for the peeps in my area. Some have peeps in sanda, some have peeps in shuai jiao, some have peeps in MMA. Some just have peeps who can defend themselves.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1047564]And how many of them are putting peope in the ring?
If you run a school in this day and age, and you don’t have at least a couple of guys who compete, you’re not running a fighting school.[/QUOTE]
what if you’re training leos and they’re using your techs to take dudes down?
what if you’re training krav maga?
I don’t fully agree with what you are saying.
Visceral threat comes in many more forms than an opponent in your weight class battling under a set of rules that keep the game pretty much safe.
I appreciate the value of competition. Been there, done that. But to disparage a school that teaches martial arts because they aren’t feilding fighters in the local nhb contests?
do competition schools teach people how to unholster and shoot quickly when faced with a threat? Because that’s reality for you. I know kung fu guys who are also into guns. I bet there’s a couple on these boards.
so, nah. 
[QUOTE=mooyingmantis;1047570]Do you assume that only peeps who can fight within a specific rule set are “fighters”? I prefer peeps who have stayed alive when there were no rules. I know several of these.[/quote]
I read this so much it just sounds like the teacher from the peanuts in my head. :rolleyes:
I train two highway patrol officers that have used stuff in real life. Guess what? They also compete.
Schools with a tough reputation will attract people who want to fight. Odds are at least a couple will actually compete in something at some point.
As for the peeps in my area. Some have peeps in sanda, some have peeps in shuai jiao, some have peeps in MMA.
Good.
Some just have peeps who can defend themselves.
Plenty of people can defend themselves and have never stepped into a school. That doesn’t say much.
[QUOTE=mooyingmantis;1047570]LOL! That is so naive. Do you assume that only peeps who can fight within a specific rule set are “fighters”? I prefer peeps who have stayed alive when there were no rules. I know several of these.[/QUOTE]
By the time most kids are in 6th grade or so, they’ve “survived” at least one “no rules” fight. Doesn’t mean they know what they are doing, though.
If you can’t fight with rules, you probably can’t fight any better without them.
masterkiller… I have does this make my school better?
When you’ve got nothing but clips and pics of demos and forms, chances are you are not doing much real sparring:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ginosifu
http://www.donniamstudio.com/Kung%20Fu%20Class/gallery.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-uw0Oju9B0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRT3oAW9w2w&feature=related
And when this is your idea of sparring, you’ve pretty much missed the boat.:
http://www.wing-chun.nu/cwc_video_sparring.htm
So, where exactly are those schools that are doing the real training. You’d think there would be at least one picture of them actually mixing it up full-contact.
When all you can find are forms, chi sao, and demos, chances are that’s what is actually going on.
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1047580]masterkiller… I have does this make my school better?[/QUOTE]
ED, Don’t get me wrong. I respect what Shyun did, especially since it was so long ago, but do you have any students doing anything currently? Even local shows?
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1047580]masterkiller… I have does this make my school better?[/QUOTE]
scorch pow and burn! lol
nice one Mike. 
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1047587]ED, Don’t get me wrong. I respect what Shyun did, especially since it was so long ago, but do you have any students doing anything currently? Even local shows?[/QUOTE]
cripes!, what are you ? Janet Jackson?
“what have you done for me lately” lol
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1047594]cripes!, what are you ? Janet Jackson?
“what have you done for me lately” lol[/QUOTE]
ED has been riding that horse for a long time, and he wasn’t even the coach there at the time. I think it’s a valid question.
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1047597]ED has been riding that horse for a long time, and he wasn’t even the coach there at the time. I think it’s a valid question.[/QUOTE]
nah, it’s sour grapes man.
do you ask your doctor when was the last class in university while he has a camera up your ass?
the only constant is change.
It will happen to you. You will have periods where you don’t have anyone fighting in any venue because you simply won’t have students who want that.
people who want to fight competitively, across all martial arts practice are few.
venues that allow it are as rare as diamond sparkle farts.
non sanctioned nhb stuff is greasy kid stuff and not worth the risk.
go big or go home. How many guys you got that make serious bank from clooberin time? how many calls you got from dana white (one of maybe two or three only real money shows in town when it comes to mma)
playing at it full blast etc… that’s goofy on a few levels. Really going for it at teh levels of gsp et al? Now that’s some seriosu business, but I don’t see that in every school training mma. I see bandwagons, t-shirt wearers and guys who have learned some but will never take it to that level and yet guys on here talk like they are and have always been at that level.
I know that simply isn’t true, I know you know it and I know teh likes of Dave Ross and Knife Fighter know it too.
small clubs banging are a dime a dozen. how much real talent with real name value have you put out.
ED, Don’t get me wrong. I respect what Shyun did, especially since it was so long ago, but do you have any students doing anything currently? Even local shows?
fair enough MK, I have this to go on and yes it was back in the day when we were into the UFC, and I personally worked and trained with Joel more than anyone else, shyun taught me the stuff and we worlked it but he never rolled on the ground but it is still more than MOST kung fu schools, so i still refer to it when peopel say kung fu doesnt wrok in the ring.
however there was kick boxing tourny not long ago at a gym here in NY, when I caled the organizers he told me it was KB rules and not takedowns so what are we to do besieds organize our own fight? that is alot more work then i want to do
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1047603]nah, it’s sour grapes man.
do you ask your doctor when was the last class in university while he has a camera up your ass?[/quote] I don’t know how it works in Bob and Doug Mckenzie country, but doctors in America actually have to get recertified every few years. They can’t rest on their laurels.
venues that allow it are as rare as diamond sparkle ****s. non sanctioned nhb stuff is greasy kid stuff and not worth the risk.
There are sanctioned, bonded fights in Oklahoma every month. I won’t let my guys fight in an unsanctioned fight.
How many guys you got that make serious bank from clooberin time? how many calls you got from dana white (one of maybe two or three only real money shows in town when it comes to mma)
The majority of my students do not compete. But that’s my student at 35th in the world. Just saying…
[QUOTE=MasterKiller;1047614]I don’t know how it works in Bob and Doug Mckenzie country, but doctors in America actually have to get recertified every few years. They can’t rest on their laurels.[/quote] the bottom percentile still gets to be a doctor though.
There are sanctioned, bonded fights in Oklahoma every month. I won’t let my guys fight in an unsanctioned fight.
good for you. smarter than your average bear.
That’s my student at 35th in the world. Just saying…
that’s great, so, if someone comes and scoops him with a few thousand bucks, what have you got then? you get to start again!
you are now where Mike was. Mike can still get there again if he wants right? So why bag on him? Is it really just because he does trad mantis?
and hey, pound for pound, the best mma fighter in the world is a canadian. 
and the dude is totally mma, and oh snap he’s a traditionalist as well!!!
http://www.fighting-mma.com/top10/pound-4-pound.php
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1047631]you are now where Mike was. Mike can still get there again if he wants right? [/quote] I just asked if ED had anyone else competing. You can drive 2 hours in just about any direction and find a sanctioned venue. ED seems to have a decent program, so you would assume someone else in the last 20 years from his camp would want to compete.
So why bag on him? Is it really just because he does trad mantis?
I’m not bagging on him. I just asked a question.
Now…where did I leave my keys…
MK
Now…where did I leave my keys…
OMG LOL we arent going there again are we? LOL talk about the last 20 years.
OK to answer your question NO I have had no one interested in compeition figting in the last few years, mostly other Black belts and adults who actually dont care for fighting or violence, they just want to learn an art or my taiji students who are into health and wellness
that being said recently because of the raging wolf school that just opened across the street from me , myself and my partner are employing chuck anzelone the only NYS certified instructor from gracie camp and buying an octogan next week and teachning BJJ at the school.
He is FAR more qualfied to teach then I am and i am humble enough to admitt it, I’m 44 for chirst sakes and dont want to roll anymore with 20 year olds. so I am sure you will be seeing kung fu usa competing soon.
thank you for not baggin:D
i think we could do a whole “where’s my keys” thread and never once use those old pictures.
There’s lots of mantis hand shots available now. even old ones. before they had cars!