You are entitled to your opinion.
Mine is that those who taught Leung Jan (Leung Yee Tai and Wong Wah Bo) helped provide the basis of good wing chun via Leung Jan’ synthesis. But the art keeps evolving–progressing in some hands, regressing in others. .. too hard or too soft.But I don’t lecture anyone.
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1095075]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are entitled to your opinion.
Mine is that those who taught Leung Jan (Leung Yee Tai and Wong Wah Bo) helped provide the basis of good wing chun via Leung Jan’ synthesis. But the art keeps evolving–progressing in some hands, regressing in others. .. too hard or too soft.But I don’t lecture anyone.
joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
The thread is examine what are the facts of WCK instead of who is authentic.
It is not an opinion of mine, it is a reality ----- those youtubes from China above shows the evidents of No single authetic WCK — different lineage different way.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1095079]The thread is examine what are the facts of WCK instead of who is authentic.
Hendrik- you are “inferring” from watching videos and youtube shots-- all inferences.
Different people will infer different things-ergo opinions- not facts. There can be a ‘reality’ separate
from your inferences. You know the old Indian story of 9 blind men trying to define an elephant by touching. There is till an elephant in the room. It’s not the tail, the trunk, the tusk or the feet etc.
Just repeating the word reality does not make it so.
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=Buddha_Fist;1094964]I see it much like Western boxing. There are many schools out there, each of which sticks to various degrees to Ving Tsun concepts and follows the training methods preferred within their lineage. Degree of success of how each school’s method translates into fighting varies largely.
The big difference with Western boxing is the lack of sparring and of realistic fight oriented progressive training.
Most schools cling to drills that lost their connection to actual fighting. The drills may look like being fighting related because they involve punches or blocks, but they don’t translate into any useful real skill that works under pressure. When these schools venture out to sparring, it degenerates into either a chaotic mess (with no sense for balance, footwork, distance control, timing, punching power, etc.) or a harmless patting game (again with with no sense for balance, footwork, distance control, timing, punching power, etc.). Lots of people assume that they will be able to knock their opponent out based on their unrealistic training, and never realize that it takes actually a good amount of conditioning and punching training to have the tools to do so.
To me, Ving Tsun is authentic when it keeps the focus of everything linked to fighting while following the core concepts of Ving Tsun.[/QUOTE]
I’m stealing this for my students… 
This type of art is called Siu Lin Tau by the creator Miu Shun instead of Wing Chun kuen. and we know today, by DNA, Siu Lin Tau is an art which is the fusion of Fujian Crane and Emei snake.
Ahhhh, the old DNA Crane-snake agenda.
Once again “we” dont know… that your opinion.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1095079]The thread is examine what are the facts of WCK instead of who is authentic.
It is not an opinion of mine, it is a reality ----- those youtubes from China above shows the evidents of No single authetic WCK — different lineage different way.[/QUOTE]
No, its not reality… once again, its your opinion.
Saying it is doesnt make it so
as a great man once said, “I reject your reality and replace it with my own.” jamie hineman (sp?)
[QUOTE=bennyvt;1095159]as a great man once said, “I reject your reality and replace it with my own.” jamie hineman (sp?)[/QUOTE]
That was Adam Savage, wasn’t it? (The other mythbusters guy).
True words though.
If you do your style just like your teacher did, you are no more than a good copy machine. You have no contributation to your style. If you add something that your style didn’t have before to your style, you have contributation to your system. Whether your contributation is “enhancement” or “water down”, only the future generation will be able to judge you long after your death.
Don’t be a copy machine. Don’t water down your system. Have contributation to your system is not easy. Whoever can bring the ground fighting skill into your TCMA style will earn your future recognition and that’s for sure.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1095141]I’m stealing this for my students… :D[/QUOTE]
Glad to be of service! 
sorry yeh it was him.
[QUOTE=Buddha_Fist;1095257]Glad to be of service! :)[/QUOTE]
Hey, it was a very good post. Thanks
You harp on about too much B.S
Your posts are bad for Wing Chun because you and others like you write B.S that you cannot prove.
Fighting is Fighting, whether it be one style or another.
[QUOTE=bennyvt;1095284]sorry yeh it was him.[/QUOTE]
No worries, mate.
[QUOTE=Niersun;1095458]You harp on about too much B.S
Your posts are bad for Wing Chun because you and others like you write B.S that you cannot prove.
If your looking for truth, then may i suggest you take up Christianity vs Islam and leave Fighting Skills and the MA to real people that train and not look to promote themselves with B.S articles and posts.
I have already expressed disagreement with Hendrik on this thread… but I don’t see what
Christianity v Islam has anything to do what Hendrik has said on this thread.
joy chaudhuri
There is no such thing as authentic Wing Chun
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1094763]Hendrik- I don’t know what your point is on this thread. You have your “history”.
I do wing chun as I have learned from Augustine Fong, who learned from Ho Kam Ming who learned from IpMan. The principles are quite clear to me and consistent in the line that i have mentioned. Applications and effectiveness can vary with the practitioner.
Consistent principles passed on carefully person to person makes for authenticity in a kung fu system - not labels or typed words. And as is reasonable people have to validate their understanding by their application.
I listen to other folk’s understandings.
What’s the big deal about this thread?
joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
I have 2 - friends who are wing chun teachers , they also told me that Fong Sifu
also learned Choy Li Fut and Hung Gar , but I have no idea who fong sifu learned hung gar and choy li fut from though , but Fong Sifu is good though , pretty fast in chi sao , I don ’ t know how often but in some place in the mainland there is a kung fu tournament and fong sifu always comes out with his assistant some times it ’ s a women and some times it ’ s guy . But he does the chi sao demo and he can trap your hands and strike you in the face and on the right and left side of
the jaw area with his hands , that ’ s what he did to his assistant .
Although Ip Man had alot of students under him , as times went by for the students they each went on their own spreading the wing chun system , but bear in mind that each student who became sifus under Ip Man themselves . Also had their own ideas towards the wing chun art they learned from Ip Man individually .
In other words every wing chun teacher would have their own individual way of teaching wing chun , their hands techniques , forms , kicks , and the way they face their opponent , are all different from teacher to teacher in wing chun . So it really depends on who you are learning wing cjhun from , your sifu may have learned from Ip Man himself , but since you ’ re learning under a sifu , it becomes your sifus version of wing chun .
Authentic Wing Chun?
Well, I see Wing Chun as a bit of a Pandoras Box 
If you have the correct key you can open and look inside, and then you may just get blown away with what you discover. It will change your life forever.
If you do not have the key you have to force the box open then there is no mystery but the simple construction of a box.
Some people will know exactly what I’m saying here (I hope)
To go on a lifelong journey to be told at the very end that the box you’re searching for doesn’t actually exist must be quite soul destroying, and unfortunately due to the nature of Chinese Martial Arts and how they have been transmitted to westerners in particular we are all in for a big disappointment! Didn’t ‘Kung Fu Panda’ teach you anything??!!
At least if we can agree there is no one ‘authentic’ system or recipe held by any of the teachers presently out there or hidden today we can get on with our journey in acceptance of what we have. Authentic teachers, yes, but no one authentic system.
And what we actually have in Wing Chun/Ving Tsun/Wing Tsun/Wing Tjun/Weng Chun/Yong Chun/Eng Chun/Vinh Xuan is a genuine Chinese Treasure
Research research research
Sifu Sergios Latest clip shows a few things I can guarantee will just be alien to most western Wing Chun schools
I can guarantee will just be alien to most western Wing Chun schools
Just as well you didn’t say “money-back guarantee”. Some interesting stuff there, some weird as well, but hardly arcane or mind-blowing. I though Alex/duende’s HFY demo he gave me was more profound than much of that.
Some people will know exactly what I’m saying here (I hope)
Pandora’s box was a poor analogy to what it sounded like you were trying to say.
I begin to question any argument that suggests that the problem that you see in the West regarding kung fu is not just as prevalent in China. The problem is that most of the people going to China to train are largely inexperienced when they go. If you go when you have experience, you’ll see that it’s the exact same. You’ll turn away teachers.
If you’ve gone to China and not had to turn away teachers because they really don’t know more than you, you are not an experienced martial artist.
If you’ve gone to China, and good people haven’t shown respect to your knowledge, you are not an experienced martial artist.
Just my opinion.