Has anyone had experience with the White tiger system and what was it like. I heard that it suppose to contain the essence of the wing chun system plus much more since it’s creator Fung Doe Duk was the eldist of the five elders and was responsible for teaching the other 4 Ng Mui, Pak mei, Chi sim, and miu shun.
Also is it true that the Bak mei style was designed to take advantage of the inherit weaknesses of the wing chun system?
The White tiger and white eyebrow systems
Has anyone had experience with the White tiger system and what was it like. I heard that it suppose to contain the essence of the wing chun system plus much more since it’s creator Fung Doe Duk was the eldist of the five elders and was responsible for teaching the other 4 Ng Mui, Pak mei, Chi sim, and miu shun.
Also is it true that the Bak mei style was designed to take advantage of the inherit weaknesses of the wing chun system?
The White tiger and white eyebrow systems
Has anyone had experience with the White tiger system and what was it like. I heard that it suppose to contain the essence of the wing chun system plus much more since it’s creator Fung Doe Duk was the eldist of the five elders and was responsible for teaching the other 4 Ng Mui, Pak mei, Chi sim, and miu shun.
Also is it true that the Bak mei style was designed to take advantage of the inherit weaknesses of the wing chun system?
Wing Chun is Snake and Crane styles of kungfu essentially and is a distillation of sil lum kungfu.
There has been a lot of looking into this style recently.
In practice, There isn’t much if any tiger in it as far as application or stylistic moves go.
there are some white eyebrow practitioners here on this forum, i don’t know if they make a correlation to white tiger style though.
as for teh legends of the 10 tigers, five ancestors, five elders etc etc. These are highly embellished and really don’t have much to do with the realities of Kungfu practice in the here and now.
sound like a great hongkong shaws brother movies plot. 
Bak Fu Pai
Kung Fu Fighter,
The Bak Fu Pai kung fu system is a family art which is headed by Jung Shee Doo Wai. He is located in Southern California. The system does not contain the essence of Wing Chun, it is a system that legend says developed alongside of Wing Chun’s legendary founder.
Mew Hing, Fung Doe Duk, Ng Mui, Jee Shim, and Bak Mei were the elders mentioned in the legends. Bak Fu Pai is similar to Bak Mei in certain ways, but in many other ways it is different. IMO it has much more hei gong/ qi gong development than Bak Mei or Wing Chun.
You can go to Http://whitetigerkungfu.com for more information. You can contact Shifu Dan LaRochelle who opertates the site for more info as well.
In Boston,
Dale Dugas
There’s a lot of controversy (of course…) about where White Tiger came from.
http://www.pakmei.net/articles/article.asp?ID=13
So maybe that White Tiger came from White Brow, but who cares nowadays.
To answer your second question, being best friends with a Bak Mei practicioner, I think that Bak Mei and Wing Chun have a lot of common. And the only apparent difference is that in (my lineage of Wing Chun) Wing Chun leans back or stands straight and we develop the ‘ging’ or whipping power from the ground-up or from turning the hips, etc.
Bak Mei gets there whipping power from arching the back. Other than that, my friend likes to take the centre, control the elbow and kick a$$.
I think the systems have a lot in common and both are very effective.
my 2 cents,
sincerely,
Kenton Sefcik
From my exposure to White Tiger, I would say that it is nothing like Pak Mei at all. It is rather confusing though, in that it appears to use the same names and credo. The explanation for this seems to be different depending on who you ask, and when.
Likewise, it is difficult to determine anything about White Tiger because there is only one authority, Grandmaster Doo Wai, and there are many people who dispute his claims. Unfortunately, it is likewise impossible to confirm any of his asertations back in China, because it not documented there other than “allegedly” through the Doo family.
To be fair to both sides of the debate, there is simply lots of controversy surrounding the art and the grand master, and if you are interested in the style, be prepared for that controversy and the allegations of fraud that follow it around. There are some old students that have had a bad falling out with the Grandmaster and are not shy to say why, or likewise to demonstrate their own lack of credibility. Its pretty ugly.
By the way, the story of the 5 Elders is not a fact, it is a legend. It was part of a series of popular fiction called the “10,000 Years of Evergreen.” Granted, there may be parts losely based upon real events or even people, but the story in itself is simply popular entertainment, and shouldn’t be taken as an historical account.
I don’t have any real hands on experience with Bak Mei White Eyebrow/Tiger systems, just read up on it in books and magazines, but we did have one student that was a Bak Mei practitioner and I did meet another practiticoner that came into the school curious about Wing Chun. From the two of them I got the impression that they could have easily adapted to the Wing Chun structure and concepts with some practice, and there were some similarities for sure. Since both are Southern Shaolin Styles this is bound to be the case.
James
Is white Tiger a southern close range style like wing chun?
I am also heavily interested in both of these styles. In a way I guess you could say Bak Mei could be used for Wing Chung, since its angles of attack are made to break the centerline.
White Tiger is very fast and explosive from what I’ve seen, and uses a hunched back, as well as sinking/risking movements. Both aren’t as watered-down as alot of the other kung fu styles because they are more rare, and slightly well guarded. Bak Mei has a reputation of still being taught as a very efficient, deadly fighting form, From what I’ve seen there is alot of Pheonix fists attacks to vital points. There is alot of chi gong practice, and intense physical form practice as well.
White Tiger, in form, practice, is some of the fastest punches I’ve ever seen. I don’t know much about the styles, but they are advandced, and focus alot on the internal aspects of striking.
I really don’t like the bit I’ve seen of BFP (the grandmaster likes to BS a lot on the internet too), but BM looks strong. BFP doesn’t apear to have much (if anything) to do with Wing Chun, and I think it more closely resembles some Emei kungfu that I’ve seen. Quick hand work (with vital point striking) and lots of wierd qigong stuff. White Tiger also seems to have an unusual amount of looney frauds floating around claiming to teach the system, so make sure the school is actually white tiger if you come across a place teaching it.
I used to have a video of a Bak Mei form, and the guy looked pretty strong. That’s about all I remember of it though 
There is a new Futshan Bakm Mei DVD out now! Goto this site if you would like to see about it:
They have their own “version” of wing chun and other styles. However, if you know about the meditations. The jings from those are meant to “power up” the forms. I have seen doo wai perform and do some fighting and training forms. My opinion is that they only learn forms in a very odd and stilted manner and then power them up with jing force from meditations.
There are meditations for a fast spasm like reflex and quick reflexes. Ect. One has to understand a certain type of arrogance they have. How could any pure wing chun fighter think he can compare to a BFP student that does 2-3 types of jing development and knows the same moves?
I’ve seen some of the bfp core forms and training forms and to tell you the truth they are a joke. Silly at best. The only thing resembling wing chun is the dim mak forms which doo wai said himself “better than wing chun”. I think the way doo wai performs is meant eaither as 1) a joke 2) so if someone takes the material and shows it to others he could just say “Its obvious I was just messing around, I concealed the real jing/power”. Like when they lied and said some forms were only training forms. And that fighting forms start with salutes. But the footage of “training forms” they all have salutes (?).
Another little stick who could not fight his way out of a paper bag
T,
The only thing that is a joke is you thought people would not remember you and the stick boy body you have. I would take it to heart that learning how to faht ging/Fa Jing properly is better than typing out a million gazillion posts on the net about training or calling other systems a joke.
You have absolutley no experience to judge GM Doo Wai and by not using an honorific when you speak about a senior master of CMA is downright rude when you look to Wu De/Mo Duk. You would think with all the witty little quotes you sign after your name you would be a little more about bringing your A game to the Chinese martial arts forum.
Those of us inside the gate know who you bought your material from and he is best ignored as he is nothing but the wind coming out of his own behind. You want to mimic that??
All these little boys who hide behind anonymous names. When you going to learn to step up? You want to call systems jokes, than compare them to something. How about your Mongolian Warrior Caste system of death?? Put your site back up so we can all laugh.
Good to see you back on the forum.
In Quincy,
Dale Dugas
When I said southern close range system like wing chun I meant a southern close range system they way southern mantis, bak mei, wing chun are all southern close range systems but NOT the same.
The White tiger and white eyebrow systems
The difference between the Bak Mei system and the Wing Chun system is that, BM is an internal art. Bak Mei has a heavier hand and their punches are explosive, using Fa Jing. Wing Chun uses trap hands and are lighter for speed. As far as Bak Mei being simular to the White Tiger, we do use some Tiger Jows. I am not familiar enough with the White Tiger system to make any furthe comments about the differences.
What about in comparison to southern mantis, and other southern close range styles?
Also wing chun is internal,( not to the extent of the xing yi baugua etc) not everybody learns that, ALOT of variations in skill, practice and ability out there.
Anyway this thread wasnt about wing chun, in comparison to bak mei
but BaK MEI TO WHITE TIGER
bak mei to white tiger
Bak Mei/Bai Mei is a little “harder” in their application of faht ging/fa jing. They(Bak Mei) also do more with reverse breathing than most systems to build up a lot of energy to smash people with.
Bak Fu Pai(White Tiger Style) is a little softer in training their ging as well as being a little more sensitive when it comes to crossing hands or using certain bridge arms/hands. The breathing in Bak Fu is natural with certain techniques used to harness the hei gong.
Both are related historically as the founders of both were blood brothers before splitting up and going to various parts of China to hide from the fascist gov’t men. But then again that could be a total crock. Both systems are short frame forms of martial arts which are similar to Lung Ying Pai(Dragon Shape Style) as well Nam Tong Long Pai. Elbows are held close into the body, usually an elbows width away. Stances are short and natural compared to the double shoulder width Ma Bu of Bei Sui Lum/Bei Shaolin. Feet are shoulder width apart and kept on the ground, not much jumping or flying around in Bak Mei, Jook Lum, Chow Gar or other related systems.
Wing Chun is internal as you must train the Yi in order to get your Chi Sau and other techniques to a higher level. Good body mechanics means Good internal. Doesnt mean you have to sit on your a r s e and meditate and dream your way into having internal power. Way too many of those fuzzy bunnies running around here and abroad. They make the MA a joke. But that is another thread in and of itself.
Bak Fu has layers of training as well as having a well developed Dit Da Ke(traumatology treatment). GM Doo Wai has some formulae that are very powerful without resorting to illegal herbs or animal ingredients. I have used them and can attest that they do what they are meant to do.
Hope this helps. Oh, if T-boy spouts off about anything, ignore him. He knows nothing.
In Quincy,
Dale Dugas