Il like the body paint especially the dew or waterdrops.
They look so real. Wonder how long and how the painter did it.
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1138472]All TCMAs have genuine manifestations and that includes Wing Chun!
IMHO, one is wrong to judge the effectiveness and authenticity of a given style of Kung fu by using the Mcdojo manifestations of it as a benchmark.[/QUOTE]
Genuine equals effective in a combative situation, yes?
Standing to me is primarily about proprioception, “creating a root” but what many fail to understand is that it must be tested in other forms of training and finally in non-compliant training with a partner.
So even in terms of TCMA its more of an adjunct rather than a base.
Non-compliant training is what MMA does well because it is after all a competitive pursuit.
The internal / external thing is primarily just classification and not about training.
Dave
yes, in the beginning of internal training there is standing post. at advanced stages you move on to squats.
[QUOTE=Scott R. Brown;1138305]Standing up is VERY important when practicing the martial arts![/QUOTE]
If you lay down on the ground, nobody can knock you down or throw you down. Even better, if you kill yourself, nobody can kill you again.
[QUOTE=bawang;1138709]yes, in the beginning of internal training there is standing post. at advanced stages you move on to squats.[/QUOTE]
Let’s face it, standing IS advanced for some people!
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1138747]If you lay down on the ground, nobody can knock you down or throw you down. Even better, if you kill yourself, nobody can kill you again.[/QUOTE]
An excellent strategy that I recommend for most people! Especially drivers in front of me going the speed limit or slower in the fast lane, and anyone who doesn’t agree with me 100% on all things and David Jamieson, but NOT David Ross, or bawang his #1 acolyte because that would be like God and his advertising agency killing themselves! The first couldn’t happen and the second God wouldn’t allow to happen!
Let’s face it, standing IS advanced for some people!
Correct!!!
breathing in air is advanced for some people.
[QUOTE=Ozzy Dave;1138666]Genuine equals effective in a combative situation, yes?
[/QUOTE]
Of course genuine TCMA equals effective in a combative situation, because that is what TCMAs were designed, trained and used for.
So, when some characters start calling important TCMA methodologies and concepts fantasy, then I know that they have never trained genuine TCMAs.
[QUOTE=Ozzy Dave;1138666]Standing to me is primarily about proprioception, “creating a root” [/QUOTE]
I have been taught that Zhan Zhuang training goes far beyond creating roots. Roots are the first “benefit” of the training, but like so many things related to the relatively profound TCMAs, many practitioners do not go beyond the first step, IMHO.
[QUOTE=Ozzy Dave;1138666]but what many fail to understand is that it must be tested in other forms of training and finally in non-compliant training with a partner.
So even in terms of TCMA its more of an adjunct rather than a base.[/QUOTE]
Not if there is more to it than mere roots training. 
[QUOTE=Ozzy Dave;1138666]Non-compliant training is what MMA does well because it is after all a competitive pursuit.[/QUOTE]
True, but IMHO, all MAs should sooner or later pursue non-compliant training, otherwise they are just fooling themselves.
[QUOTE=Ozzy Dave;1138666]The internal / external thing is primarily just classification and not about training.[/QUOTE]
Of course it is about classification for different overall approaches, but don’t different approaches require different training methodologies?
For me, the power of internal martial arts training is in the cultivation of a calm, clear mind.
I haven’t been in a fight for over 30 years, but I find usefulness in having a calm mind every day.
Take the other day for example …
Best Regards,
Rick
There is a very clear difference between internal application and external application, if you don’t think there is, then you are external person only thinking you have some internal.
If you have not done standing for years at a minimum, there is no way you no what internal is or could even begin to apply it.
So without the standing training, you are just external guys thinking there is no internal, or maybe hopping there is no internal or thinking your external training will develop internal too, it will not.
So saying what you think it is, just says you don`t know, because if you had it you would clearly know the difference!.
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1138858]Of course genuine TCMA equals effective in a combative situation, because that is what TCMAs were designed, trained and used for.[/QUOTE]
So how do you measure that?
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1138858]So, when some characters start calling important TCMA methodologies and concepts fantasy, then I know that they have never trained genuine TCMAs.[/QUOTE]
Not fantasy, but not necessarily time effective for the returns gained if you look at the overall attribute development required of a combative discipline.
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1138858]I have been taught that Zhan Zhuang training goes far beyond creating roots. Roots are the first “benefit” of the training, but like so many things related to the relatively profound TCMAs, many practitioners do not go beyond the first step, IMHO.[/QUOTE]
I disagree but hey it’s only my opinion and experience, “goes far beyond” what does that entail for you?
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1138858]Of course it is about classification for different overall approaches, but don’t different approaches require different training methodologies? :)[/QUOTE]
Again, I disagree. The training process is the same.
The base attributes of all combative disciplines can be reduced to courage, strength, speed and changeability. The process of developing those attributes can be different dependent on the strategies and tactics of the individual style and the experience of the practitioner.
My point is that standing practise is ubiquitous to TCMA. I’ve trained in both so called internal and external styles and they all do standing practise but its like all training methods - subject to the laws of diminishing returns beyond a maintenance component after the objectives of the training have been internalised. 
Dave
[QUOTE=Robinhood;1138944]There is a very clear difference between internal application and external application, if you don’t think there is, then you are external person only thinking you have some internal.
If you have not done standing for years at a minimum, there is no way you no what internal is or could even begin to apply it.
So without the standing training, you are just external guys thinking there is no internal, or maybe hopping there is no internal or thinking your external training will develop internal too, it will not.
So saying what you think it is, just says you don`t know, because if you had it you would clearly know the difference!.[/QUOTE]
Or maybe internal people are just external practitioners who believe the tripe they have been told that internal is something special and do not understand that all actions are external from the start, otherwise they would NOT be ACTIONS!!!:eek:
What is the key to INTERNALLY lifting 300lbs of deadweight ( barbell for example) off the floor?
Youknowwho and I are still waiting for someone to show us the “internal” way to perform a roundhouse.nu
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1139072]What is the key to INTERNALLY lifting 300lbs of deadweight ( barbell for example) off the floor?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;1139073]Youknowwho and I are still waiting for someone to show us the “internal” way to perform a roundhouse.nu[/QUOTE]
You guys are just guys who are internally external instead of externally internal or internally internal and think you are externally external, so you cannot fully understand the internally internal mindset.
Any one can do either one of your feats…in their own mind! Which is the ONLY REAL form of internal. Any ACTION one performs is ALWAYS external, anything done within one’s mind is ALWAYS internal.
Therefore you can do anything internally as long as it stays internal, as in, “within the mind”, the real difficulty occurs when one tries to bring their PRETEND world into the REAL world!:eek:
[QUOTE=Scott R. Brown;1139071]Or maybe internal people are just external practitioners who believe the tripe they have been told that internal is something special and do not understand that all actions are external from the start, otherwise they would NOT be ACTIONS!!!:eek:[/QUOTE]
No, It has nothing to do with belief, it is a very different cause and effect.
If you were able to meet someone who has internal application ability, they should be able to demonstrate the difference on you so you will be able to feel the cause and effect difference.
Someone watching will not be able to see it,he will only see that the one guy was moved with little effort or movement, so people watching will always think it is fake.
So Scott your quest will be to find someone that is willing to let you experience the difference. It won`t be an easy task, for many reasons. Not because no can do it, but more of why should they show you !.
[QUOTE=Robinhood;1139080]No, It has nothing to do with belief, it is a very different cause and effect.
If you were able to meet someone who has internal application ability, they should be able to demonstrate the difference on you so you will be able to feel the cause and effect difference.
Someone watching will not be able to see it,he will only see that the one guy was moved with little effort or movement, so people watching will always think it is fake.
So Scott your quest will be to find someone that is willing to let you experience the difference. It won`t be an easy task, for many reasons. Not because no can do it, but more of why should they show you !.[/QUOTE]
Well, gee wiz, since I already am a rather proficient practioner of internal applications, I guess I don’t need to find someone, which of course is why I feel free making smart a$$ comments about a topic I already KNOW a great deal about. Thanks for the thought though!:)
[QUOTE=Scott R. Brown;1139082]Well, gee wiz, since I already am a rather proficient practioner of internal applications, I guess I don’t need to find someone, which of course is why I feel free making smart a$$ comments about a topic I already KNOW a great deal about. Thanks for the thought though!:);)[/QUOTE]
I could be wrong, but you don`t sound like you know the difference from the things you say!, tell me something that only an internal guy would know, not something you read in a book.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1139072]What is the key to INTERNALLY lifting 300lbs of deadweight ( barbell for example) off the floor?[/QUOTE]
An answer would be nice…
Or how does one do a hip throw internally?
by clenching anus