The expensive Lesson in the history of red boat uprising which Wck involve in

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
1

For wcners who is interested in history of Wck,

From the history of china 1850

The deadly mis understanding of the Dak ( as in Mo Dak) in china , contribute to the down fall and destruction of Taiping heavenly Kingdom uprising 1860 ( related to the red boat uprising which Wck involved )

A,

Dak or Moral.

B, Two common moral : Loyal and justice.

B1

Chung or Loyal:
Public minded, carry out one’s duty for one’s country and the world peace and prosper.

Being missed understood or twisted as :

Blindly taking side and do anything for the benefit of one’s own tribe disregards of proper or legal or consequence, Or obedient to serve the leader of the family blindly at all cost.

B2

Yi or Justice:

Public minded , benefit others helping others to over come difficulty or solving problem without any agenda.

Being missed understood as:
Taking side to unconditionally support one’s tribe member disregard of proper or legal or consequence.

C:

The misunderstanding of the above commonly lead to : self righteous, self benefit, and abusing of power.

Contribute to the destruction of Taiping heavenly kingdom, the lost of the red boat uprising, and millions of innocent live.

Taiping has a great chance to over thrown Qing, but the leaders screw up.

The God’s Chinese son, a great book to read for those who is interested in what happen 1850 china, red boat, …

http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Chinese-Son-Taiping-Heavenly/dp/0393315568/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1397102129&sr=8-3&keywords=taiping+heavenly+kingdom

“A magnificent tapestry . . . a story that reaches beyond China into our world and time: a story of faith, hope, passion, and a fatal grandiosity.”–Washington Post Book World

Whether read for its powerful account of the largest uprising in human history, or for its foreshadowing of the terrible convulsions suffered by twentieth-century China, or for the narrative power of a great historian at his best, God’s Chinese Son must be read. At the center of this history of China’s Taiping rebellion (1845-64) stands Hong Xiuquan, a failed student of Confucian doctrine who ascends to heaven in a dream and meets his heavenly family: God, Mary, and his older brother, Jesus. He returns to earth charged to eradicate the “demon-devils,” the alien Manchu rulers of China. His success carries him and his followers to the heavenly capital at Nanjing, where they rule a large part of south China for more than a decade. Their decline and fall, wrought by internal division and the unrelenting military pressures of the Manchus and the Western powers, carry them to a hell on earth. Twenty million Chinese are left dead.

This review is from: God’s Chinese Son: The Taiping Heavenly Kingdom of Hong Xiuquan (Paperback)

For me, this book is about as well told a history as I’ve read (and I’ve read hundreds of history books), covering the upbringing of Hong Xiuquan, his awakening to Christianity, and his emergence as a cult leader that wound up presiding over a nation-state. Spence offers colorful details that bring to life the Xiuquan capital, as seen both from residents and visitors. The book is at its most powerful when analyzing the writings of Xiuquan himself and how he adapted the Testament to suit his own needs and ego, creating a mythology that couldn’t possibly survive the death of its leader. Meanwhile, there’s the constant cat and mouse game played by the Chinese emperor’s armies that try to vanquish the rebels.

2

Some Wck history researchers such as Robert chu and Rene Ritchie and more … have been researching the Taiping Heavenly Kingdom and its relationship with Wck.

We might be able to see more about the Taiping heavenly kingdom in video soon.

3

Here s a god website Hendrick

http://www.imperialchina.org/Qing_Dynasty.html#taiping

4

[QUOTE=Firehawk4;1264855]http://www.imperialchina.org/Qing_Dynasty.html#taiping[/QUOTE]

Thanks!

Here too some old article

Ritchie, Rene; Chu, Robert; & Santo, Hendrik. “Wing Chun Kuen and the Red Junk Opera”. Retrieved August 14, 2005.
Ritchie, Rene; Chu, Robert; & Santo, Hendrik. “Wing Chun Kuen and the Secret Societies”. Retrieved August 14, 2005.

http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WCP.WingChunKuenAndTheSecretSocieties-CollectedInformationByReneRitchie
http://www.wingchunpedia.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=WCP.TheWingChunKuenOfChoHong-Choi-ByHendrikSanto

5

Hendrik heres a Emie Kung Fu Guy

http://www.shaolin.com.au/KF-01EmeiShan.html

6

Firehawk,

Really? … I mean Really? You have got to be kidding?:confused: Lol!:eek:

They teach everything! Emei, Shaolin, Wudang, Crane, Dragon, Tiger, Leopard, Panther! The “Master” must be at least 150 years old to know so much! Me I only know a very little White Crane and Taiji, I have a great deal to learn. This “Master” must be the most trained “Master” of all time!

7

Hi Hendrik,

I am not trying to be a Smart Alec here but if it is as you write that Wing Chun owes so much to Emei, Snake and the Whiter Crane styles then why don’t you simply give up Wing Chun and find a Emei, Snake or White Crane Teacher???

8

Ron I thought The Emie Looked Like You

The Emie Guy can be Hendricks Emie Sifu and You ron Can be Hendriks Fukien What Crane Sifu then the problem with the Snake Crane thing will be solved .

9

Firehawk, Umm … No. :rolleyes:

I have no desire to be anybody’s “Sifu” … I’m happy being a nobody and just going along, enjoying my life and what I do! Perhaps it’s something others could apply to their own lives here? Who knows?

As for Emei, I sincerely doubt that “Grandmaster Robert Z” is truly representative of Emei … call it a hunch!

As for Hendrik, I doubt he’d be open to learning anything from me. He seems to have his own agenda and I don’t think it involves Fuzhou White Crane in any real sense!

10

my understanding is hendrik’s wck which has elements of both of those. it’s that mix that gives wck its uniqueness as a separate art, just like u have taiji, etc. different than just studying emei, or just studying white crane

[QUOTE=Minghequan;1264864]Hi Hendrik,

I am not trying to be a Smart Alec here but if it is as you write that Wing Chun owes so much to Emei, Snake and the Whiter Crane styles then why don’t you simply give up Wing Chun and find a Emei, Snake or White Crane Teacher???[/QUOTE]

11

[QUOTE=Minghequan;1264864]Hi Hendrik,

I am not trying to be a Smart Alec here but if it is as you write that Wing Chun owes so much to Emei, Snake and the Whiter Crane styles then why don’t you simply give up Wing Chun and find a Emei, Snake or White Crane Teacher???[/QUOTE]

That’s kind of a silly question Ron. Should all the Karate guys simply give up Karate and find a White Crane teacher as well? There was whole video about a group of them going back to China to research their White Crane roots. Should all the BJJ guys give up their BJJ and simply find a Japanese Jiu Jitsu or old school Judo teacher? Just because someone is interested in where they came from doesn’t mean they want to go back! :wink:

12

Keith, Silly? No more sillier than over 90% of the rubbish that gets posted!

And lets put it into perspective, I’m not the one saying Karate people should go back looking for White Crane (anyhow they won’t find it in Karate anyway … more like Tiger Boxing or Ngo Cho Kuen). Nope, you said that! :slight_smile:

And another thing to consider, I’m not like Hendrik who is largely basing his teachings on what he calls the “original engines” … being that of what he claims is Emei, Snake and Crane arts. So my suggestion/question that maybe he should consider these arts is now not that “silly” after all! :wink:

Read through Hendrik’s posts and it is very plain to see (as plain as the nose on your face) that he is looking heavily at these arts for the truth within his Wing Chun so asking why he does not study these arts or at least one of them isn’t that far off from a reasonable question.

The way I read it and the way I am sure others do too, is that Hendrik is indeed seeking the origins of his Wing Chun and claims same can be found within the arts of Emei, Snake and Crane as he has gone to great lengths to state in his many posts on this forum.

13

[QUOTE=Minghequan;1264873]

And lets put it into perspective, I’m not the one saying Karate people should go back looking for White Crane (anyhow they won’t find it in Karate anyway … more like Tiger Boxing or Ngo Cho Kuen). Nope, you said that! :slight_smile:
[/QUOTE]

Much traditional Okinawan Karate is based on Fujian White Crane. The only traditional Karate style, I can think of, that was heavily influenced by Tiger Boxing is Uechi Ryu.

14

[QUOTE=KPM;1264871]That’s kind of a silly question Ron. Should all the Karate guys simply give up Karate and find a White Crane teacher as well? There was whole video about a group of them going back to China to research their White Crane roots. Should all the BJJ guys give up their BJJ and simply find a Japanese Jiu Jitsu or old school Judo teacher? Just because someone is interested in where they came from doesn’t mean they want to go back! ;)[/QUOTE]

My problem with Hendrik’s theory is that it fails to take into account the reality of martial art. Look you cannot mix the techniques of boxing with the so called engine of tai chi and create some new great art. That will result in a mess that doesn’t work. This is because fighting arts are not like car parts that you can rearrange to suit you. An art isn’t just the techniques but integrated strategy, methods, tactics, techniques, and so forth. There is no such thing as an engine. The movement that you develop power from is not one thing and varies with what you are trying to do or in other words with technique. Boxing does not have an engine but various ways of developing power and they are interdependent on technique. The body and footwork and hands are not separate things but integrated movement. Same with wing chun.

Also he talks about martial arts as though they existed apart from people. Someone developed a way of fighting called wing chun. That person may have been trained in systems of fighting before developing his own way. But that is different than what Hendrik refers to.

15

People sometimes forget that regardless of how a MA started, what it is NOW is what is important.

16

Much traditional Okinawan Karate is based on Fujian White Crane. The only traditional Karate style, I can think of, that was heavily influenced by Tiger Boxing is Uechi Ryu.

And you base this on what? Knowledge of Uchinan-chu Tode? Japanese Karate? Your knowledge of Fuzhou White Crane?

Sorry but the White Crane & Karate Myth is just that, a myth made popular by a Chinese regime wanting more recognition for their country.

17

This is because fighting arts are not like car parts that you can rearrange to suit you.

----Really? Maybe you should go tell that to the Bruce Lee fans and the JKD guys! Go tell Paul Vunak and his crew that what they do doesn’t work because they have mixed things up to suit themselve! :wink:

. There is no such thing as an engine.

—Sure there is. You obviously don’t understand what that means.

Boxing does not have an engine but various ways of developing power and they are interdependent on technique. The body and footwork and hands are not separate things but integrated movement. Same with wing chun.

—Again, you obviously don’t know what its meant by an “engine.” Every martial art has a distinct biomechanical method of generating power. That is the “engine.” Boxing is no different. Modern boxing has its own “engine” that makes it distinctly different from the old school boxing of John L. Sullivan’s day.

Also he talks about martial arts as though they existed apart from people. Someone developed a way of fighting called wing chun. That person may have been trained in systems of fighting before developing his own way. But that is different than what Hendrik refers to.

—I don’t even know how to reply to that. What the heck does that mean?

18

[QUOTE=Minghequan;1264957]And you base this on what? Knowledge of Uchinan-chu Tode? Japanese Karate? Your knowledge of Fuzhou White Crane?

Sorry but the White Crane & Karate Myth is just that, a myth made popular by a Chinese regime wanting more recognition for their country.[/QUOTE]

What does Japanese Karate have to do with this? It’s pretty well known and relatively recent history…I would think you would be aware that the Okinawan arts had their origins from China…

19

[QUOTE=Minghequan;1264957]Sorry but the White Crane & Karate Myth is just that, a myth made popular by a Chinese regime wanting more recognition for their country.[/QUOTE]

I had spent quite some time to help a 7th degree Okinawan Karate teacher to translate a white crane book. Even a Okinawan Karate teacher believes that his system came from white crane.

20

What does Japanese Karate have to do with this? It’s pretty well known and relatively recent history…I would think you would be aware that the Okinawan arts had their origins from China…

Oh really and what “authority” of White Crane said this as fact?

Have you talked to White Crane people?

Two weeks prior to his sad passing, Master Ruan Dong came out and stated that he did not think that White Crane and Karate had a connection and that he was pressured by the Chinese “powers to be” to imply or state the “connection” as it was good for the reputation and world positioning/ Tourist aspects etc.

As for the Okinawan arts I have studied these in-depth including on Okinawa and yes some of the arts have a tenuous connection to China (Uechiryu / Tiger Boxing, Gojuryu / Five Ancestors Fist etc) but not White Crane!