http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26502
If you watch the “heavybag” clip carefully you will notice that my Sifu has a punching mechanic influenced by both WC and Western Boxing.
LOL@ no comments. Here is a clip of Wing Chun vs. Mantis friendly open handed sparring:
http://users.1st.net/abaddon/kfo/wcvsmantissparring.wmv
here is a clip of me performing the Chum Kil form:
http://users.1st.net/abaddon/kfo/chumkil.wmv
FWIW I studied Wing Chun for about 3 years when the clip was shot.
Hi Fajing,
Great clips! Thanks for sharing! It’s very generous (and brave, considering how nitpicky wing chunners can be) for you to share those clips. It seemed interesting to me that in the WC vs Mantis clip, the WC’er used what looked like a TWC entry technique several times (foward dash with a raised leg). Was he a TWC guy? Also, if you don’t mind my asking, what Wing Chun line do you come down from?
Regards,
Alan
so which one was supposed to be the wing chun guy?
Hi Fajing,
hey good bless you for breaking a sweat and putting it out there , pretty much kick boxing though , but nothing wrong with that , i’ve been known to jump in a ring once in a while myself just to see if my savate and thai and boxing still flow , great way to work out and stay in shape , keep having fun man
LOL@ALIKY Here’s betting dollars to donuts either of those guys could take you.
Sifu Milan from Brazil is a TWC practicioner
My own sifu has about 30 years in the regular Yip Man lineage. He has also studied for 10 years with Ted Wong (Bruce Lee’s second student) as well as having extensive other related MA experience.
Ernie - please clarify “kickboxing” statement. Would like to discuss further, without worries. Do you mean based on my two fights? There was a lot of wing chun in there, and alot of kicking and punching. I did kind of “revert” to some old Taekwon-Do tournament tactics like round kicks to the head. Since it was working for me I stayed with it, but it did compromise my base. However most of the takedowns in “keith’s3rdfight” occur where the opponent takes a hard blow from my fist or foot to his facemask, then rushes forward. That was pretty lame. I did get my roundkick caught in both matches but that’s tournament fighting for you.
I do think that if I continued to study and compete you would see more “wingchun”
But to me, if it looks at all like wingchun then I have been successful. And if it looks like kick boxing, and it looks like decent kickboxing, then that’s a complement too. Wing Chun when applied in the ring should look a bit like good kickboxing in my opinion
I used mostly vertical fist straight punches, front kick, Wing Chun footwork, so there you go.
Couple more things:
I think my kickboxing/Wing Chun could definitely use alot of tightening up. Not trying to claim otherwise
Keith’s3rdFight contains two matches, the last 15 seconds are from the next round which I lost to my junior classmate. He is the one picking me up and slamming me.
Wing Chun for yo ass
http://users.1st.net/abaddon/kfo/sparring.wmv
4 minutes 6 seconds into the clip
Low bon sao to whipping punch (more of a backfist, but my sifu’s whipping punch is strong)
Fajing, Any suggestions? I cant get your links for me. I am not tech savy.
Phil R’s limks work fine for me- quick time comes o and does its job.
On yours- I start downloading- when the down loading is done Eudora comes on and nothing else happens— no clips to see.
hi Yuanfen. Do you have Windows? Rightclick and save target to your machine. You will need the latest (free) version of Windows Media player which you can download from Microsoft. Make sure to open up these clips using this program.
Thanks for the interest.
Ernie - please clarify “kickboxing” statement.
first of please understand that I have mad respect for anyone that can glove up and square up with some one ,
as for kick boxing that is exactly what I see through my eyes and my perspective , pendulum foot work , a lot of fakes , some broken rhythm . allot of probing with either hand or foot , bobs, weaves , upper cuts hooks , fake high hit low fake low hit high , in jkd world this would be a progressive indirect attack ‘’ pia’’ .
I say a few low line oblique kicks a lot of savate fort’e and chas’e . this would explain the Ted Wong influence .
now why is this not wing chun , I can only speak for myself and my experience .
first off the disregard of square body facing , protection of centerline[ no man sau or wu sau ] and attacking to centerline .
buy why of using boxing foot work and , bobbing , weaving , and leaning forward and back , the wing chun body structure is not being utilized , much of the power was coming from torso twisting , which is natural when you are using a dominate left or right body posture , you need to rotate to bring the second hand into to play and wing chun is a two hand active fighting system ,
now lets look at distance , allot of shots were fired from long or as I like to call it sniper range this deviates from the elbow down close quarter principle in wing chun .
also the mentality was different , in sparing your playing , giving different reads , experimenting , manipulating distance . it’s a fun and useful game . but the wing chun mind set is different , it’s not playing laser beam focused ‘’ killer instinct ‘’ you just go in and take him out . or so they say 
so many of the basics were not there from chair here on internet row . but you were still working it and doing your thing spending time in the moment . and that gives you an edge in the real world were things get gully and you being adaptive that is also very important .
if you want to see were I’m coming from wing chun wise I can email you a few clips of some demo stuff but you will get the idea .
nuff respect and peace
Hi Ernie. 1st of all, I appreciate your comments.
I was asking were you basing that on the fights alone, but it sounds like you’re talking about the sparring too.
Keep in mind that in sparring, sifu gives us as much of a “non-wingchun” look as possible. So we are forced to think outside of the wingchun vs. wingchun box. That’s why he does things like come in with his hands down, ducking etc. Also, he does favor JKD in terms of his own fighting style - which I think showed through. We do practice a lot of straight up Wing Chun drills and you may notice some chi gerk influence.
Alot of (original) JKD stuff comes out of Wing Chun with modifications. For instance the forward burst is just the exchange step from Chum Kil, but a little looser.
However I (personally) did not focus much on June Fan JKD movements - just tried to JKD-ize my wing chun. Plus I have some other tools in the box.
Flavor wise, I think you are correct - I didn’t seek to establish a bridge and took a very sport-fight approach. However you will see me throwing the rear hand alot, and effectively in the matches. I keep my punches relatively compact compared to most - so not Wing Chun but Wing Chun influenced.
Another punch I like from Wing Chun comes out of the Jou Sao (running hand) drill. So low straight shot and come up around into a head shot in one smooth circular motion. I think of this as the Wing Chun hook, although I hear that there is another one from the Bil Tze form. I also like a regular Western Boxing Hook and the uppercut, although I didn’t use the uppercut in my matches, unfortunately.
You will notice that I used the three-angle step pretty effectively in both matches. I had a kick that was like the lotus kick in one match “3rd fight”. In the other “2nd fight” I front heel-kicked the guy in the jaw twice - he walked into my kick just like in the last fight scene of “the Prodigal Son.”
So much work to be done, of course. I would like to be able to transition into the bracing step footwork like Augustine Fong does. But I do not plan to restrict myself to Wing Chun. Like Rene said before, it’s robust enough to apply it in many different ways and to different degrees.
Thanks for the appreciation - do post your clips or e-mail them to me at fajingk@yahoo.com
fa_jing
You wrote: “Sifu Milan from Brazil is a TWC practicioner” Are you in Chicago? I think I heard of a TWC guy from Brazil in Chicago. If he’s the one was he aware that Sifu William Cheung was giving a seminar in Detroit in Oct.?
As a former kickboxer I would have to agree with Ernie. Of course it takes heart to get in there and mix it up but the clips remind me of Toughman contests.
Also, I truly believe the “retards rocking” was in bad taste. Especially for martial arts forum. We can be bigger than that. Please ask your sifu to contact me at;
sifu@wingchunkwoon.com
I did not post or request the “retards rocking” clip
I didn’t say “Tai Chi is a hippy dance” either. You guys aren’t used to the main forum.
I’m the one that told you about the TWC practicioner from Brazil in Chicago.
There are more clips on pages 2 and 3 of the thread if your interested.
Please state what you expect to see if someone who trained in a more pure style of Wing Chun, after 3 years, entered his first two full-contact competitions against a variety of different styles.
Look at the clips closely, and hopefully with the sound turned up. I land a solid punch, but the fight doesn’t exactly end there. Typically the fighter just takes it on his caged headgear and keeps coming. We might expect the same thing of a crazed psychotic if it was a bare - knuckled street fight.
I think the onus is on traditional sifus to explain how training with light contact only is not going to get a student steam-rolled in such a competition their first few times out.
And I repeat, if were to continue to train and compete you’d see more “wing chun.” But it’s still a sport and you still have to play to win, not to a draw - which means taking more risks, clinching up, etc.
I’m always interested in your opinions and would like for our fellowship to develop further. My sifu doesn’t do e-mail though.
Hey fa_jing!
I sent you a PM!..
Fa_jung.
You also get all the mad props form me.
QUite frankly, these are the kind of clips I would rather see on here ALL THE TIME. Instead of the my chum-kiu is great ‘clips’.
For the most part I agree with Ernie. It looks a lot more like ‘kickboxing’. But…here’s the thing. basically when two people fight/spar whatever,…it’s going to “look” like kickboxing…whther you want it to or not. The only thing is how much of your “style” can you interject into that kixkboxing/boxing structure/look? The more you can use your ‘style’, the better you are at it, But I would hazard a bet that NO-ONE can look like Wing Chun ALL the time. Unles your 'fight lasts 3 seconds lol - which could mean bad news for you
Basically, yes, if I look closely, I can see the occaasional WC influence, but it’s very occasional. Again, that’;s not a bad thing. Fighting is fighting and training live like that, is way more beneficial than spending your time perfecting you goat clamping stance.
Basically, THANK YOU FOR SHARING THOSE CLIPS, and that is the kind of training/competition stuff that is sadly missing form much of Wing Chun. You have all my respect.
MORE!!!
Originally posted by KenWingJitsu
But…here’s the thing. basically when two people fight/spar whatever,…it’s going to “look” like kickboxing…whther you want it to or not. The only thing is how much of your “style” can you interject into that kixkboxing/boxing structure/look? The more you can use your ‘style’, the better you are at it, But I would hazard a bet that NO-ONE can look like Wing Chun ALL the time.
Personally I’d disagree with this. There’ll most likely be a few adaptations - more kicks & long range strikes due to the frequent lack of serious attacks in this kind of sparring event, but someone watching it should be able to narrow down what you’re doing to just a few styles. IMO the underlying structure/look should be WC, the moves you do should be WC though some would be emphasized more than normal. If not, then it seems to be indicative of what you’re training when sparring.
Thanks KWJ - I really appreciated your comments and I know you have a rep as a fighter.
I’m going to repeat a couple things for clarity’s sake:
I’m not a pure Wing Chun stylist. The drill portion of our class is about 70% Wing Chun, 15% June Fan JKD, and 15% other (mostly grappling). I’m including focus mitt work here which I think still counts as Wing Chun if done with WC structure and movements.
When it comes to bagwork and sparring - the rule is - whatever you can make work. I try to draw from Wing Chun as much as possible, but fall short of ideals. Again, my Sifu will not come at us in sparring like a WC stylist, seeking a bridge - his theory is that we already have alot of ideas for dealing with that kind of fighter due to the drilling. It is a humbling experience for there to be NO obstruction between my fist and his head…and yet not be able to hit him solidly (usually). IMO this is the only way to develop accurate punches.
My last two points are: 1. I did “revert” a little to my old TKD tournament tactics…although I studied WC for much longer than I did TKD…I competed many times in TKD (as a teenager) and these were my first tournies as a Wing Chun stylist. Something about being in a big gymnasium with all of the people running around…
- If ANYTHING looked like Wing Chun, I consider it a success.
To me, what was most “Wing Chun” about my fights was the way I was landing the first straight punch…direct, vertical fist, explosive. Also following with the rear hand. No that’s not unique to Wing Chun, but it is a very important part of Wing Chun. I did use the three angle step at least once it each fight.
Curious: did you guys watch the other fights? Can you tell what styles the practicioners have trained in?
Just keep doing what you’re doing. But also, I say take a closer read at Ernie’s post. Especailly about the squared structure if you want to interject more WC into you sparring. Aso his points about the Wu sau & Man Sau. When you spar/drill drill that way and it will come out when you compete.
if you want to see were I’m coming from wing chun wise I can email you a few clips of some demo stuff but you will get the idea
Ernie, ahem I’d love to. dhirayesufu@ifgloans.com 
coming your way bro,
we still got to hang out i just started training again after a 3 week death bout with the latest hacking cough thing that’s floating around .
i’m in need of some fresh energy and a bit of a tune up.