I read Sun Tzu’s Art of War about 2yrs ago, and didnt think i understood it. I picked it up again yesterday, thinking that I could understand what he means and get the full effect of the book. Im a really open minded person and would like to think that i would understand it… however it seems to me that its a bit pointless. all the stuff he says seems to use made up figures and give advice that really is just common sence. basicly… i think the book sucks
I really thought it was going to be an interlectual book that would help with my kung fu.
I cant find a single bit of usefull info in the book… if someone could help me that would be great… Perhaps ive missed something???
Yep sounds like you have misunderstood it.
I’d reccomend Thomas Cleary’s Sun Tzu II, which is the writings of Sun Bin, which is more Taoist and slightly less Confucian.
Do you think perhaps it’s ‘common sense’ because people have been referring to that book for generations? It’s not like he wrote it yesterday mate. It’s not Chicken Soup for the Warrior’s Soul.
It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.
The art of war, then, is governed by five constant factors, to be taken into account in one’s deliberations, when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.
These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth; (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
These five heads should be familiar to every general: he who knows them will be victorious; he who knows them not will fail.
The general that hearkens to my counsel and acts upon it, will conquer: let such a one be retained in command! The general that hearkens not to my counsel nor acts upon it, will suffer defeat:–let such a one be dismissed!
no comment…
All warfare is based on deception.
Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him.
If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him. If he is in superior strength, evade him.
If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.
If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them.
Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.
i guess none of that would be helpful… and thats just in the 1st chapter… ofcourse i’m biased
Aha but is this book really about learning anything or being able to impress your hippy friends by quoting phrases that take something simple such as “Don’t let him hit you” and making it hard to understand?
When they torrential rains move boulders, it’s because of [the accumalated water’s] momentum…
When the eagle breaks the rabits back [while striking] it’s because of timing…
---- Sun Tzu
Know your enemy and know yourself
----- Sun Tzu
There is so much in that book, about taking what the enemy does not defend. About winning without fighting. Understanding strenght and weaknesses and calculating when one should give battele. Death ground, ect. That book is a jewel. Don’t read it! Study it! Line by line.
being able to impress your hippy friends by quoting phrases that take something simple such as “Don’t let him hit you” and making it hard to understand?
isn’t that the chinese way?..
A lot of coaches yell from the sideline: “Hit harder!” “Faster!” Ect. (See Red’s sparring experience thread on speed topic).
This book, if you understand it, actually tells you how … your teacher should to.
How to be faster without using speed. How to be stronger without using power. Fighting is definitely a science, and when everything comes together an art.
Do you think perhaps it’s ‘common sense’ because people have been referring to that book for generations?
I think that is only partially true. Sun Tzu wrote things down that any “good” warrior or general should understand anyway. I think common sense is a good way to describe it in that what he says works and anyone who has had any experience in it will understand that.
I think the book is good, it has some thinkers in it, but it also helped ot me to think about my methods from a different angle.
I think that is only partially true. Sun Tzu wrote things down that any “good” warrior or general should understand anyway. I think common sense is a good way to describe it in that what he says works and anyone who has had any experience in it will understand that.
I think the book is good, it has some thinkers in it, but it also helped ot me to think about my methods from a different angle. [/B]
Well, right. It’s not common sense because Sun Tzu wrote it ages ago. It was logical when he wrote it. But the sense contained therein has only become more ‘common’ with generations of study of either it or similar texts. (Clauswitz?)
That aside, the idea that you would read The Art of War and then undergo some sort of revelatory experience bugs me too. It’s not going to magically make you a better businessman or martial artist.
It’s not going to magically make you a better businessman or martial artist.
right, I agree. I ennjoyed the read and every once in a while I pick it up and read it again, my pocket edition anyway. It hasn’t changed my life but it has helped to view certain aspects of my martial practice and understanding from a different angle.
A lot of coaches yell from the sideline: “Hit harder!” “Faster!” Ect. (See Red’s sparring experience thread on speed topic).
Yeah, I am sure it is a great book…its just the hippies at my school who can’t just say something normal they have to quote sun tzu when a much easier explanation is available…
isn’t that the chinese way?..
Good point.
But another thing, I’ve been reading Machiavelli to try to learn Italian and I had a similar reaction I’m like what’s the big freakin’ deal? I think maybe its b/c it was written long ago in another language and culture…and Sun Tzu was writing a long time before THAT and in a language that was not latin based. I’m sure a lot was lost in the translation.
So, you’re saying it’s common sense when to leave locals in rule of a tributary and when to put your own governor in place? Common sense has certainly come a long way. I guess we should thank Machiavelli.
Machiavelli, while not the end of political thought, is still must reading, at least for context.
I like Sun Tzu as well, in a different way. My experience with it(and the book of five rings) is that more is inferred than directly stated. Ironically, with machiavelli, I think more is directly stated than inferred.
Originally posted by Chang Style Novice I am having a similar problem with Wesley Snipes’ “The Art of War.”
:eek: let’s just forget about that for a moment…
I personally ahven’t even finished to book yet, and by finish I mean really read it, thoroughly understand it etc. and I have used his philosophies too many times to count in everyday life.
School, work, video games, basically life.
It’s similiar to staying calm in a fight. Everyone knows it’s the best basic step to a confrontation, but in reality how many can truely utilize it?
There is no question, for me atleast, that this has helped me out in every area of my life when applied.
I have probably three dozen different translations of Art of War in my library. I have the Foreign Languages Press version right nere on my desk. It’s a brilliant work, but it does take some time to understand it. I certainly agree that there’s nothing more annoying then hippies mindlessly quoting Art of War (although I’ve never experienced this personally, but I do know a lot of hippies and can imagine how annoying that must be.) Where Art of War becomes truly fascinating is the study and intrepretations that successive scholars have put on it, everyone from Zhuge Liang (strategist of the Three Kingdoms) to Mao. It often seems unimpressive after the first few reads, but it’s a strategic treatise, one that is meant to be put into practice, so if you just read it, it won’t work. Apply it. Then after you get some reactions, start to work through the commentaries. Just like many CMA concepts, like say horse stance, it’s simple on the surface, but gets truly deep after daily practice. In the end, it sets a martial foundation that is immovable.
If Art of War doesn’t work for you, you might try the 36 strategies. That one is a bit simpler, more direct, and easier to apply at first.
Its a book on strategy by Myamoto Musashi. I had to read it a few times before I started understanding the deeper meanings behind the book. I think that the Art of War is a similar experience.
