Th Great Grand Master?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
41

It’s pretty funny that this thread gives a prime example of the “exaggeration” that happens with fights.

People are talking about the fight clip with the older guy taking on “4 or 5” guys. Ladies & gents, it was only 3! Don’t take my word for it, look it up for yourselves. And this is just with “1st generation” witnesses of the video. You all saw it yourselves, and just recently too.

How many generations has it been since Cheung’s fight on the boat? Quite possibly it was only 2 guys about his own size and in a confined area, and the knife “stuck” in his back may have only been a superficial wound.

42

If everyone Most Wing Chun sites always point to Bruce Lee or The Great William Cheung to promote their school, Bruce quit Wing Chun, and William Cheung probaly only fought 1 or 2 guys on the boat unskilled guys, I think people that keep repeating my Grandmaster caught the biggest fish start to believe their own lies.

43

Samson,

I can’t disagree with you about the marketing of WCK: most of it is complete, utter nonsense. But this is what happens when you have a bunch of folks that have little real skill trying to sell their wares to a bunch of folks that want to play martial artists but don’t want to fight – among other things, you get references to “legends” as proof that “this stuff really works”. They don’t need to do that in boxing or MT or BJJ or whatever since anyone can see it work for themselves.

James,

That Boztepe took Chueng outside of Cheung’s game is just smart fighting. If I fight another WCK guy, my strategy would probably be to take him down off the bat even if I think my WCK skills are better. Why? Because he’ll be able to put up a fight on his feet but be helpless on the ground, so it’s easier and safer to just take him down. If I fight with a BJJ practitioner, my strategy would probably be to “stall and brawl” since it would be easier and safer for me to keep the fight off the ground.

44

In reading this thread, I had an epiphany…the fight between Boztepe and Cheung…has…absolutly no bearing on my martial development. Wow, now I can just go train without that heavy burden on my shoulders.

Whew. :cool:

45

AmanuJRY wrote:

In reading this thread, I had an epiphany…the fight between Boztepe and Cheung…has…absolutly no bearing on my martial development. Wow, now I can just go train without that heavy burden on my shoulders.

**Actually, I think that fight had many important lessons and/or questions that we can all use to further our “martial development” because it involved two long-time WCK practitioners actually fighting (as opposed to demonstrating or touching hands) and by seeing their shortcomings, we may gain insights that will help us. Or, we can close our eyes, hide our head in the sand, and refuse to acknowledge that it happened, or that it was some sort of unhappy fluke, etc.

**For example, it demonstrated fairly clearly what a typical fight – not “sparring” as so many typically praactice it – “looks” like. Is this what you (the general “you”) are preparing for? Neither Cheung or Boztepe were, at the time, despite years or decades of training in WCK, that prepared for what transpired (based on their performances). That’s important because if they did all that WCK training and were not prepared (skilled), we should ask ourselves, “why?” Is it because, as some say, that WCK is just not functional or because the way they trained just didn’t prepare them adequately? If Cheung or Boztepe couldn’t use their WCK, why not? Is it that easy to put somoene in a situation where WCK can’t really be effective? If so, what does that say about WCK for self-defense? I could go on, but you get the picture.

**Some think the Cheung-Boztepe incident was a black day for WCK. So do I. But what’s great about black days, about defeats, is that we learn the most from them. So from my POV, that was one of the best things to ever happen to WCK – it should be a wake up call rather than something to dismiss and ignore (to protect our fragile egos).

46

"For example, it demonstrated fairly clearly what a typical fight – not “sparring” as so many typically practice it – “looks” like. Is this what you (the general “you”) are preparing for? Neither Cheung or Boztepe were, at the time, despite years or decades of training in WCK, that prepared for what transpired (based on their performances). That’s important because if they did all that WCK training and were not prepared (skilled), we should ask ourselves, “why?” Is it because, as some say, that WCK is just not functional or because the way they trained just didn’t prepare them adequately? If Cheung or Boztepe couldn’t use their WCK, why not? Is it that easy to put somoene in a situation where WCK can’t really be effective? If so, what does that say about WCK for self-defense? I could go on, but you get the picture. " (Terence)

YES, YOU COULD GO ON…and on…and on…because you’ve come to enjoy trolling, Terence.

But let me ask you a few questions:

Who has Robert Chu (your wing chun instructor) ever fought?

And who has Hawkins Cheung (Robert Chu’s instructor) ever fought?

Come to think of it - who has Terence Niehoff ever fought?

And here’s another question for you:

Are you aware of the fact that your sifu, Robert Chu, emailed me recently to clear the air about a few things - including telling me that he has great respect for William Cheung, and that William was one of his boyhood idols???!!!

Are you aware of that, Terence?

Or are you just too busy being the “ambulance chaser” of the wing chun forum?

The lawyer who’s ALWAYS looking for the opportunity to make something (ie.- a profit) out of unfortunate events. William Cheung, 46 years old at the time, literally slipped as he was throwing a kick on a parquet floor, while wearing the thin Chinese slippers, and after being surrounded by a bunch of guys, one of whom ran up behind him and pulled his pants down, and being confronted by the leader of the pack who was standing in front of him, while being a lone Chinese man in a foreign caucasian country, and suffered no physical bruises whatsoever by the time it was over…

And you,Terence Niehoff, playing to the UG crowd, want to continue on and on about it 19 years later?

You’re a troll, Terence.

Plain and simple.

A troll.

And don’t bother trying to tell me that I’m “taking it all wrong”…that I’m “misinterpreting your meaning”…that you’re only trying to point out “the importance of realistic training”…

and all the other BULL5HIT that you give whenever you’ve been called about your trolling…

because I know, along with many other people around here by now, that all of that simply serves as a COVER to hide your real motivations…

the same things that motivate every other troll:

petty jealousy
personal insecurity about HIMSELF (and his own martial abilities)
vindictiveness
personal ambition (that seeks to climb up by kicking others down)

This is you, Terence.

47

so according to YOU…

Joy is a Racist, Hendrick is a drug addict and now Terence is an ambulance chasing Bull5iter…

FUNNY how its only YOU…that resorts to personal insults WHEN someone disagrees with you…

your interpersonal skills NEED a bit of work…Victor

48

I agree with that he is a master of pointing the finger instead of facing the truth

49

I agree with that seems Victor always points his righteous finger to avoid the truth

50

???

Is there a reason you didn’t just edit your first post?

51

“I agree with that seems Victor always points his righteous finger to avoid the truth.” (Samson)

WELL SINCE we’re on the subject of truth…Samson’s real name is Dave Mead - and his motivation for this entire troll thread about William Cheung is the fact that one of William’s top students, Phil Redmond, threw Mead out of his class (in Detroit)…for being way too much of a wise ass…and after Mead tested the waters elsewhere (which didn’t work out for him)…he wanted back into Phil’s class - and Phil said no.

Hence this BS thread.

52

Wrong again Vicky, wound never train TWC they seem to not be able to fight another Wing Chun group that makes excuses to why they wont fight

53

I’m not going to argue with you about who you really are, Dave Mead…only came back on this thread to answer Terence - as his William Cheung/TWC trolling has become too overbearing.

But I know who you are.

Adios.

54

This is a very “hot button” issue for some folks around here…

People should be aware and considerate.

I see this incident in a similar light to this kind scenario:

Young hotshot Boxer with entourage corners old time ex-boxing champ while doing a seminar.

Young hotshot Boxer with entourage tells old time ex-champ he wants to fight him and prove he is a better boxer.

Old time ex-champ says WTF I’m in the middle of a seminar…

Young hotshot Boxer with entourage then tackles old time ex-champ.

Old-time ex-champ surprised, unready and wearing slippery shoes goes down to the ground.

Young hotshot Boxer with entourage throws ineffective punches from the ground.

Old time ex-champ arises a few minutes later uninjured and continues seminar.

Which conclusions might we make here?

  1. Don’t wear slippery shoes when doing seminars?

  2. Bring own entourage in future?

  3. When trash talking BS starts sick your entourage on them?

  4. Boxers don’t wrestle very well?

  5. Young hotshot Boxer preferred his grappling skills over his standup game?

  6. Challenges ain’t what they used to be?

  7. Boxing is no good - a myth?

  8. Neither fighter can box?

:stuck_out_tongue:

55

Well Victor anytime,
Bernard Walatkiewicz
6154 West 3RD St, Los Angeles Ca
90048
I would like to come visit you!

56

I think there are too many internet tough guys around here now. I’ve sort of stopped coming around as much because of the monotony of the threads…nothing productive is being discussed…am I the only one that notices this?

This thread…and most of the other current threads…are offering nothing of a constructive nature. It’s getting old guys. Really.

57

I can be reached at:

wingchun@usa.com

58

:eek:

Uh how did my name get brought into this riduculous discussion???

:confused:

Btw I totally agree with and have done the same as Vankuen. There is more whining, gossiping and backstabbing going on from people/martial artists these days than there is at a weekly b*tch & stitch.

Funny it seems it is always the ones that say they are the toughest, baddest, martial artists/fighters that are doing all the b*tching/whining/gossiping about EVERYONE else. This thread and how it started is a PERFECT example of a common trend on this and other forums lately.

Pretty sad that you can only feel good about yourself while cutting down and gossiping about others that you have not even met, even when you have never been personally involved with who/what you are talking about. I Guess it is the need to have constant drama in your life to thrive and feel like your alive.

Notice none of the ‘greats, grandmasters, etc’ don’t waste their time with any of these forums. Gee I wonder why?

BTW, also like the new format, hence the playing with the smileys. :smiley:

Vicky

59

Just to set the record straight…this guy Dave Mead (Samson) wasn’t thrown out of Phil’s wing chun class - he quit on his own.

But after testing the waters elsewhere, and it wasn’t going well, he wanted back into Phil’s class; but precisely because he was such a wise ass is why Phil said no…and then he starts this thread.

60

Vankuen

I think there are too many internet tough guys around here now. I’ve sort of stopped coming around as much because of the monotony of the threads…nothing productive is being discussed…am I the only one that notices this?

No, I’m with you on this!