I dont know any words, my vocab isnt that big like yours so i keep it simple and too the point. I dont hide within the words and then make out that im the one teasing and starting trouble. Even words as you say get taken wrong, you keep saying the history is not correct why is that? What do you know about wun yuen apart from the history on the webpage. Why cant the history be possible?
i think for myself and i will defend myself and my System and my Sifu when i have too, you all seem to know about my art so please go ahead and tell me what its about?
I can get many people to come on and say how a nice fella i am just as you are for Bob, doesnt mean anything to me. You wanna talk nice how about stop ridicueling and patranising (spelling) me for starters cause i do seem fire up very quickly when i have D!cks trying to tell me about my own system. Sometimes you dont need to talk yang or yin with people you need to show and then discuss what its like to encounter something thats is B.S and made up as you say.
Anyway f@ck it you all know it all, lol
How about YOU demonstate for me about the TAO? hmmm How about NO SCOTTY? LOL
You have got to be kidding, take a look at yourself and what you are saying to me and how you are saying it before asking me?
I do not KEEP saying the history was “not correct”. I said it sounds improbable, that means “most likely untrue”. It is un-provable whether it is as you say or not and by implication something that cannot be proven is not worth arguing about. You believe it others don’t, so what!!! You can’t prove it is so and no one else can prove it is not so, but others can fairly say it is improbable. You don’t have to like it, but they have a right to say it. Calling people names does not prove your art has the history you say it does, it only shows your immaturity! It is not unfair to question fantastic claims even if it is uncomfortable to do so. Personally I don’t care about the history of your style. I am trying to explain to you why it has been called into question that is all.
I am not saying I know anything about your art and once again I don’t care. I am calling into question your CONDUCT. Feel free to defend your art. You have every right to do so even if I think it shows your immaturity. I am trying to NICLEY tell you that your belligerence is unproductive. That means it isn’t polite and doesn’t accomplish anything, but create more hostility.
Calling people names only shows your immaturity. If you would read a bit more carefully you would see that Bob never said anything about your art, but about your claim to know Tao. That is your CONDUCT!! And frankly that is what I am calling you to task for as well.
Pay better attention to what people are actually saying and take the chip off your shoulder, you might learn something and grow up a little in the process!
FT,
If you re-read my posts I never stated that you , your teacher, or your system had no skills. All that I said is that it is a fake lineage - which it is. I have seen these crazy claims before and it will not be the last. Matter of fact I just met with some people about a week ago and we discussed this thoroughly. I will be the first to admit that I was wrong about there was no kungfu lineage linked to Lao-Tzu. Matter of fact there is, it was passed through the Celestial masters from Zhang Daoling, which was taught to him by Lao Tzu, but this kung fu skill was not in the form of fists but in ritual by commanding the heavenly generals for the purpose of good and being able to resort to the correct Deities and Demons of orthadoxed Taoism.
Once again before I end my post, I would like to point out that I never did attack your skills and I would never unless I had reason to do so. But your lineage on the other hand as well as your demeanor is nothing to admire.
Cheers - lol
P.S. Sorry if this seems garbled, I am very tired and have jet lag.
hahahah You upset about name calling? LOL **** off!!! hahahaha just kidding!
My conduct is all you are worried about, u dont even know me dude so forget about trying look like the humble man here. I speak like a hethen so what does that make me a bad person? Am i Immiture, maybe so and maybe not, but maybe when im around the same type it brings out the best in me? lol
I never said i know the Tao or the system, it was created by 2 senior students of Lao Tzu so the history says. If you wish to include me as a DAOIST PRIEST go ahead, i am a daoist but we all lose our path from time to time thats why you are still here and speaking to me. You are not DAOIST, by the way you right and think either you just think you are cause you dont swear!! lol Do you think Daoist dont swear or lose there path? What is a daoist to you does not mean a daoist to me?
As fro conduct, im not your student or friend so my conduct shouldt concern you!
Its all good you believe what you will, i think its true and that is all that counts as well its deeper then all the internal arts ive seen when it comes to chi cultivation and its theories.
So you find out new info regarding Lao Tzu and kung fu so maybe somewhere somehow Wun Yuen was born?! LOL Goes to show you learn new things everyday when u have an open mind?
I am talking to you because I choose too. As long as it is something I want to do I will continue.
I am not taking you to task for swearing. I am not taking you to task for being angry. I am questioning your maturity when you repeatedly call others names simply because you don’t like what they say. This is childish behavior. It does not reflect positively on your claim to be a student of Tao. As a person concerned I chose to include myself in this heated discussion in hopes of helping clear some of the fog of misunderstanding. You choose to re-interpret everything as a slight and then insult and name call others. This is not productive and does not reflect well on you or your teacher.
You want to claim the others here are just like you and you think that justifies your behavior; however I have seen no one call you any names. You are the only one so far and when you do call others names no one has been reduced to your childish level. So at this time you are dreaming if you want to equate anyone’s conduct here with your conduct.
I am not trying to “look humble” I am trying to calm your increasingly abusive language.
You did say “I am the Tao” and this implied to some of us that you consider yourself a student of Tao. If this is not the case all you need do is clarify it.
Your incessant need to take everything as a personal slight is not necessary, nor is it necessary to contain ridicule and name calling in every post you make. If you are confident in the history of your school and you find value in it then good for you. Others are allowed to disagree with you, accept it! You won’t be able to change their views with inappropriate behavior. It will only continue to make you look like you are childish.
First you say you do not know Tao, but then call yourself a Taoist so perhaps you are a bit confused as to how you wish to live your life. Your conduct is not becoming of a student of Tao. If you have fallen by the wayside then take this as an opportunity to re-find your path.
I have every right to comment on your conduct when it is displayed inappropriately on a public BB. I am merely reacting to the way you comment on everyone else’s behavior. At any rate please take my comments as encouragement to temper your tone and calm your hostility. It is in your own best interest.
I am merly reacting to what you made me to, so we can play this all day long?
I am a Taoist but maybe you get the wrong idea of what a Taoist is also and how the Tao works? Why do you think there is YIN and YANG or is there YIN and Yang or did humans give it a name?
I said i am the Tao to take the **** out of you guys since you all think that and try and talk as if you know it, but can it be named? As for my Sifu looking bad because of me i dont think so, i am my own Man, as he is what i do should not reflect on him as what he does wont reflect on me cause i live by the TAO. Im not too concerned about what you have all said but i will argue the point cause thats what forums are for so i will state my point of view. If you knew me i would also curse as i speak cause thats how i speak peroid, does that make me a bad person cause i swear and curse even if they are just words or unless you get attatched to the emotion of that word you take offence to that? Isnt language a beautiful thing words can cause hatred, happiness, jealously, etc. I maybe am childish here to YOU and to others, but i am a happy person and i have friends and students that love me also. But there is a very serious me that i will defend myself if i feel i need to be it words, fist, or whatever…since this discussion was of good intent that went bad cause most of you thougt that you know the history of WUN YUEN and you know my sigung and sifu, plus mind read and see that they invented the whole story i take my hat off to you for that skill.
From a decent thread got destroyed for the sake of people that think they know it all because they read some daoist books, or been told by there own sifu that this is the TRUTH so makes everyone elses oral and written tradition and philospies incorrect cause they truely dont know or understand.
Cause i dont agree with you accept it? hmmm and like wise dude!!!
Ok Scott R. Brown, so please explain the proper conduct of a daoist, from your own point of view?
If Dao exists then we are all part of it, like it or not.
If Dao exists then rape, murder, war, death, cancer, AIDS, bad cooking and TV-commericals are also part of it, like it or not.
And swearing too.
FT is expressing himself truthfully, stating what is on his mind at the moment, this is being natural and living in the moment. Like it or not, but to me, he expresses a better understanding of the Dao than anyone else on this thread becaues he lives it for real, both the good and the bad…or the yin and the yang if that is how you prefer to express yourself.
I’ll respond to your post when i have a bit more time.
Hi HupGerk,
Your post does not show much understanding. Some of what you say is true, some of it is flawed. I am not inclined to get into a p!ssing match with you at this time. One p!ssing match at a time is enough. But for now let me say that FT suggests that he is a Taoist. He also states that his MA style is from two students of Lao Tzu. Just where in the Tao Te Ching or any of the other purported teachings of Lao Tzu or other respected Taoist writers is this present behavior of FT taught, enouraged, professed or recommended?
LOL So you know what type of person Lao tzu was as well, **** man you are pretty smart guy and out lived all the iold masters to pass on the teachings too…hmm not bad!
is it right to follow the words of Lao Tzu? Is that what Daoist suposed to do?
Its a great book and insight to what Lao tzu was thinking and on about also was he on some type of Magic Elixer for Immortality or was his findings purely based from walking around noticing?
Does the Dao Te ching relate to kung fu can it be that Dao is not found in a book?
My post shows about as much understanding as yours, I would say…
Now, where in the Dao De Ching is is stated that you are not allowed to swear in public? Is the choice of words “****ing match” also listed as forbidden somewhere in your copy, because I personally find that wording equally offensive?
For someone who claims to be true daoist, you are sure quick to claim your view as superior. A more civilized language doesn’t change that fact.
Now, since you DIDN’T want a ****ing match…(why even mention that word if you really don’t want it???), back to my original question at the top of my previous post.
In your own words, based on your own understanding or as passed on to you from your teachers (since I assume that you are in some lineage with daoist roots), what is the proper conduct of a daoist? If you can claim that some of us aren’t living up to the standard, then what is the standard against which you are judging us?
You see what you want to see and not what others mean by their posts.
Take some responsibility for your self. No one “made” you the way you are. You have chosen to be the way you are and the consequences are yours to enjoy as well.
Perhaps it is you that has the wrong idea of what a Taoist is. At any rate what my implication has been is your behavior is not in accord with the principles of Tao, which is not the same thing as saying they are not Taoist.
Tao not being “named” is not the same thing as not being “known”. We come to know and understand Tao by looking for it, learning from it and applying the principles in our lives. Tao cannot be named because a fixed definition cannot encompass what Tao is, therefore any definition or name would limit it and fixate many travelers of the path on limited understanding.
There are clear patterns of behavior that demonstrate understanding. A student of Tao accommodates himself to Tao. He doesn’t behave any way he chooses and then justify it by calling it following Tao. It is not uncommon for novice travelers on the path to try to justify their inappropriate behaviors by stating they are merely following their natural inclinations or personal expression of Tao; it is more likely it is just an excuse to act inappropriately. They may fool themselves, but no one else is fooled. If you can point to any accepted teaching by Lao Tzu or any other Taoist writer that endorses hostile name calling then please share it with us all so that we may be edified by it. Please accompany an explanation of your understanding of the passage so that we may all benefit from your wisdom, since you seem to want to demonstrate to us that we know nothing of Tao.
I will repeat myself for your benefit and for HupGerk as well. I am not taking you to task for swearing or for getting angry, but for the childish manner in which you express yourself. Calling others names and accusing them of doing things they haven’t done is unproductive. You attack others for things they did not say, and twist what they do say. It shows little understanding, insight, maturity or understanding of the principles of Tao.
Like it or not there is a certain decorum of behavior that is expect in public discourse. We do this so that we may interact with each other in an expected manner that will ensure public harmony and ensure that future interactions will occur in a pleasant atmosphere. When discussing topics of mutual interest it may be expected that disagreements will arise. It is the way of Tao. We conduct ourselves with decorum even in disagreement because presumably we would like to continue to discuss topics of interest together in the future. When we alienate others by behaving in unnecessarily hostile and rude manners we only harm our self. Others will not be inclined to interact with us if we make such encounters unpleasant.
I am giving friendly advice that is continually misinterpreted and suffer repeated ridicule in return. No one need take my advice. I certainly wouldn’t take either yours or HupGerk’s. But I will continue as long as I feel inclined to do so.
Please do not confuse the courtesy of a reply with wanting to continue to engage you. I will get to you in time if i am so inclined. You attitude at this time does not incline me to want to take the time with you yet!
Please re-read what i have written more carefully. It is not the expression of anger or swear words i have criticized. But NAME CALLING!
READ the book Taoist Master Chuang, he was a drunk, swore and cursed, and challenged people. But he was famous for his meditaion teaching and his ritual Thunder magic!
You must of looked up half of our answers about The Tao cannot be named blah blah. I think you are a christian and believe that I SHALL NOT SWEAR and mixed it into Taoist Philosphy cause not everything is Chocolate and Roses dude. You p!ss me off, i respond in the correct manner thats natural?! lol
Lao TZU Rode backwards on the back of a donkey is that natural and correct way to do things in life? Is swearing part of talking?
FT: As Scott mentioned, i have not commented on your style or lineage.. the only connection might be that if some style consistently produces students with the same characteristics as yours, it is not likely to be favored by other students of Tao.. swearing is not, of itself, offensive, it is the context where someone asserts they have some higher knowledge of Tao while at the same time showing an aggressive attitude.. I am easy to find, if you are inclined.. you are welcome to visit any of my classes, you are welcome to demonstrate your skills at whatever level you are comfortable with.. http://taichi.meetup.com/21/ This is our local site, all the info you need to find your way around the Central Florida Taiji community is here.. Please understand, i claim no higher skill or understanding of Tao than you, i simply find that the manner you express your experience of Tao inconsistent with my own understanding.. Taoism has a liberal, in fact limitless, constraint upon its advocates.. to incite conflict and do it with words or phrases that some people find offensive (yep, there are even kids that view this forum) is one flavor of Taoism i, personally, don’t care for.. but, surely, everyone has the right offend.. it is simply a signature of their spirit.. swearing doesn’t add anything to someone’s communication, it usually diminishes any value the statement may have otherwise had.. Given the nature of written communication, the opportunity to actually craft a combination of words and phrases to express a thought.. to still rely on swearing and aggressive boorish phrases leaves others with a sense of the author’s actual beliefs and the author’s intentions.. and that would not express the highest potential of Tao..
I agree with you that the principles of Tao do not have to be learned from a book. I mention the Tao Te Ching and other writings on Tao because I presumed as a follower of a school founded on the teachings of Lao Tzu they would be considered appropriate to learn and apply to one’s life. If this presumption was incorrect then I wonder why found the school on Lao Tzu’s teachings?
You are confusing the transcendence of convention with not following any convention at all. To transcend convention means we understand that all rules are for a specific purpose. We understand they are merely superficial conventions and we are not bound by them. However, we all follow conventions because they are necessary to function in life and within groups. Proper behaviors are established for the benefit of the individuals who interact within a group. The harmony of the group is considered beneficial because without it anarchy would reign and that endangers the individual.
Established conventional behaviors bring structure and security to social interactions. Everyone within the group thus knows what behaviors are accepted and what are considered inappropriate. This provides emotional security and presumably physical security when disagreements occur.
Unconventional behavior is for the mature not the immature. Without established conventional behaviors the immature would kill each other off. Therefore, conventions of behavior were established for the benefit of all. It is true that conventional rules may be confining and limiting to growth. But having the ability to transcend convention must also be tempered by knowing when to conform to convention and when to transcend it.
You certainly have every right to behave unconventionally. However, I also have the right to comment on it.
LOL
lol