[QUOTE=Bacon;1188377]My sifu has a saying. “Siu lim tao teaches you the letters. Chum kiu teaches basic words and biu jee more complex ones. Chi sau, lap sau, and pak sau teach you basic sentences, and sparring teaches you how to speak.”
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How peculiar! I knew how to speak using words long before I knew my letters.
[QUOTE=Bacon;1188377]My sifu has a saying. “Siu lim tao teaches you the letters. Chum kiu teaches basic words and biu jee more complex ones. Chi sau, lap sau, and pak sau teach you basic sentences, and sparring teaches you how to speak.”
The point is that each builds upon the other. The forms teach structure at first, then coordinated movement and more complex hand forms, power output, etc. The drills teach you how to use those in a controlled environment and sparring you finally get to apply them full bore. If you remove the forms it’s like removing the foundation of a skyscraper.
I’ve seen what not practicing forms does to some of my wing chun brethren and it’s not pretty.[/QUOTE]
I’m sure that your Sifu has an important point with that, but speech usually precedes learning letters, sentences, etc. Humans developed spoken language far before they developed written language, so the analogy doesn’t work.
[QUOTE=Fa Xing;1188429]I’m sure that your Sifu has an important point with that, but speech usually precedes learning letters, sentences, etc. Humans developed spoken language far before they developed written language, so the analogy doesn’t work.[/QUOTE]
That’s inconsequential. The point is showing how each levels builds upon the next to eventually create a functional system.
If you want it to be linguistically accurate it would go phonemes -> morphemes -> basic conjugations -> sentences -> conversation but again this is besides the point and since most don’t know what phonemes and morphemes are it doesn’t work quite so well as an explanation for most folks.
[QUOTE=Fa Xing;1188396]Great post! Particularly the last part, because it doesn’t matter what your intention is during a form, if you have never trained against a non-cooperative, resisting opponent, then it is just dry-land swimming.
Anyone else feel like this is just beating the bones of a dead horse?[/QUOTE]
In the current MA climate the horse has all but bolted.
This is the heart of the problem IMO for TCMA in the West - people equating forms with a mock representation of combative response. They are not.
Forms are a multi faceted training tool that at the basic level teach attributes particular to a style.
Dave
There is more to Wing Chun than just punching…
In boxing everything is practiced interactively.
But if you have no partner you shadow box…Shadow boxing is a Form…its freestyle non-the less…but its still mere form practice.
Even in dance you practice routines, in music you practice…
A musical soloist or singer has to practice quasi form to build themselves up…They dont just practice being solo and adlive all the time…They have to first learn how to follow a pattern until their voice or body can mold into the require form…An they keep practicing the basics to maintain proper form!
Same with kung fu…think of forms as shadow boxing!
[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;1188514]There is more to Wing Chun than just punching…
In boxing everything is practiced interactively.
But if you have no partner you shadow box…Shadow boxing is a Form…its freestyle non-the less…but its still mere form practice.
Even in dance you practice routines, in music you practice…
A musical soloist or singer has to practice quasi form to build themselves up…They dont just practice being solo and adlive all the time…They have to first learn how to follow a pattern until their voice or body can mold into the require form…An they keep practicing the basics to maintain proper form!
Same with kung fu…think of forms as shadow boxing![/QUOTE]
The difference is that in shadowboxing you naturally adapt the techniques to yourself where forms make you adapt yourself to the techniques.
[QUOTE=Fa Xing;1188562]The difference is that in shadowboxing you naturally adapt the techniques to yourself where forms make you adapt yourself to the techniques.[/QUOTE]
actually the techniques in shadow boxing you utilize to adapt to yourself…Because nothing is new under the sun…Over time you body becomes acclomated to moving like a boxer and it becomes natural and fluent…until it becomes second nature. Same with forms. over time your body gets used to the footwork and movements and structure an you do so instaneousnly…