tai chi and wing chun

Nei Jia: the Qigong and Taijiquan Forum Taijiquan and the Internal Martial Arts
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Hi Evolution Fist, thanks for your open and honest reply to my question. You (like many others on this forum) seem to have a lot of experience, which is why i was asking you the question.

I am happy that you have found what you are looking for. I have not heard of E-Chuan (is it a romanization of Yi Quan? I have heard of that…It seems very interesting and very practical). I too have tried many different systems before finding my current Sifu. Like you, his skill just blew me away when i saw him - i basically dropped everything i was doing before to follow him :slight_smile:

My Sigong’s teachers are Yip Chun and Chen Xiao Wang respectfully, so i feel very fortunate right now…

I have only been training 18 months, i am just scratching the surface of Wing Chun and Qigong - hopefully Taijiquan in the future.

Anyway, good luck,
david

Ps. Liked your analogy Braden :slight_smile:

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I saw a lot when I was young hitting tournament in the early 80’s, my fathert would drive my up and down the coast comoeting and checking out seminars/ I think ithelped me develop a decent eye. I saw alot of good stuff, and most of the garbage I saw was in the way of attitudes with with bad teachers (this was karate mind you and respect weighed very heavily, sportmanship).

As for E-chuan, my master is the greatgrandmaster of this system. He studied with the disciple of the disciple of Ba Gua’s founder. Inside the Palace Ba Gua. It’s the real Ba Gua, it was used to personally guard the Emperor. Think, if youw were the king, would not only the best of the best guard you?

So he was very lucky there – and now I consider myself lucky. However, at the same time he was studying with someone I have heard to be quite famous for Hsing-I, though I do not know his full lineage (excuse me here. I’ve only been with ym master for 13 months now and this is not something I break the flow of class to ask about, sometimes the topic just turns there). So. he had the privelage to study with both of these great men, I believe concurrently, so he could bounce back and forth: “How do you stop this, how do you stop that”, ect. ect. Then, at one point, his master’s told him to stop adressing them as sifu, that he had reached too high a level (Wow, that must have been heavy). Je also learned a pole method from a master Liu, who was also very well known. I can actually post an article written by Robert Chu stating such, adressing my teacher in that article as the best in Chinatown. So, all these methods combined, plus my teacher, having inherited these methods, has the old book, and is an aeroplane engineer (quite a sharp mind) has formed a new way called E-Chuan. It is absolutely amazing.

ANYONE IN OR EVEN NEAR NYC (5 hours away) SHOULD COME AND CHECK IT OUT, JUST SEE IT. I GUARANTEE! YOU WILL BE SATISFIED.

Now, this mis my teacher. Me, I’m just a kook. But every single time I walk out of that class I take a peace of the puzzle with me. I’m beginning to make out the hazy shape of the method, but its clear reality is still some time away.

Whatever, method, train hard. I didnot want to come off harsh on any style. Hey, we are all martial artists. But, at the same time, I can not deny that a good internal teacher will take one to new bounderies in their fighting, mind, and body perception.

ting ting

my two cents bouncing on a tin floor

23

EvolutionFist

hi EF,

it’s your schoolmate, cherry (just in case you didn’t recognize me from my handle as this is also the first time i am addressing you in these boards). :wink:
i wouldn’t call master chan the “greatgrandmaster” of e-chuan. i guess it’s a matter of preference. i would just say that he is the founder…

not that i’m contradicting you though…:smiley:

you forgot to mention that master chan is as strong as an ox though he is 60. actually, i thought he was only in his 40s the first time i saw him two and a half weeks ago. wow…i can’t believe i’ve only been there in that short amount of time…

as for this thread…

i am not too familiar with wing chun though i have heard/seen some of its concepts and applications but i can say this about internal arts most particularly ba gua as i have first hand experience on this (though this experience is only a matter of a few measly weeks), you use EVERYTHING. you condition not only your muscles but also your tendons, ligaments, inner muscles and organs. this type of conditioning accounts for the youthful vigor of aging practitioners who seem to retain much of their coordination and strength. as master chan points out every now and then, martial artists no longer fight for their country or for some nationalist agenda as they once did centuries or, at the latest, decades ago. there are guns and bombs for that kind of motive. what’s the point of hurting your body for a fight that you may not have to fight? even so, a fight can last minutes or even seconds. but in the days before and after, you must live your life. it wouldn’t do to get hurt needlessly. master chan is a firm advocate of safe and effective training. he doesn’t like wasting time, energy and effort.

i have heard arguments before that wing chun is only a derivative of the older styles. what is wrong with that? older doesn’t mean better. if it does the job, then it works. also, not everyone has the same body structure and personality. whatever works, works and should be something that you figure out for yourself.

:slight_smile:

24

Amen to that sister!

I agree with you on allmost everything you said – and you said it, actually wrote it, so well.

The greatgrandmaster thing is just a title, and is actually given to the founder of a system, which our teacher is. He is the creator of e-chuan.

As for Wing Chun, I do like it, or at least more than some other styles. My problems with it is not its age by far. I’m a bit of a romantic and actually have a weakness of things of old. Hsing-I is actually older.

My problem with Wing Chun is this: It is regarded much too often as this grand ultimate fighting method.

OK. BUT WHY?

How many people hear actualy toting it as such have actually put the gloves on and fought, done the testing to declare it as such. I’m sure some are, but suspect most are not. When I was training WC I did. But when you’re fighting WC with WC, well, gues what? WC always wins.

Most never even get to this, and spend most of the time Chi Sauing. Which is good. But fighting, I believe, is soemthing all together different. Players will get cute when you get in on them in Chi Sau, try to pull off a “come from behind” victory. But, if it was a fight, and a clean score was made to the chin, how many would not fold?

So, Wing Chun can be a great style – any style can be. But one needs to go out and test it against other methods, and not just in chi sau. This isn’t a WC comment, rather a general MA comment.

And when a wing chun player of 5 years declares it as the grand ultimate (most likely because of bruce lee or the latest, 10 wing chun killing hands article from some guy that trained with Mr. lee in his yard for 1 year) I know he hasn’t gone out and fought Hsing-i. No way!

Because think of what you are learning? How good should you and I be 5 years from now training with master chan? Probbaly about as good (or better) then his one time student who came in and cleared the top fighters from my old school clear out. I was there, felt it first hand. That experince showed me there is nothing soft about the internal … and set me out looking for him.

Anyway, I guess this was a bit too wordy so I’m skipping out and will hopefully get home in time for Simpons.:slight_smile:

Peace out Cherry. It’s a pleasure having you around.
See you friday.
Ray

25

Hi Ray,

hmm…i’ll just go to master chan’s classes and see what happens. i’ve been VERY sore for the past three weeks, from neck to toe! as far as being better than his one-time student, i wouldn’t know…life happens…hopefully, you and i will stay long enough to learn a thing or two…

to quote prana, “practice, practice, practice.”

see ya in class later!

:wink:

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The soreness will go away, and then you’ll be sore someplace else when we focus on a new area. That’s good. Is your shoulder/back sore? That’s a good thing. Working the right places.

As for our level: I’m there for life. I wanted to move to Hawaii in a few years, after writing this book. But I know its not happening now. I can’t train with anyone else. And I’m not leaving until I get it all … or at least as much as I can absorb. My hands are pathetic, my walking/kicking is not existent, I have no internal and haven’t the faintest of master’s pole or sword.

Nope, I won’t be going anywhere any time soon. ****! Pretty discouraging now that I think about it. So much time studying different arts. Wish I would have known sifu when I was a kid. But at least I have a foundation to build on, and when the students ready I guess…

I’m in no rush and I’m still young and dumb enough to go out and mix it up and get banged around.

See you later.

Peace
Ray