Symbols and Icons: May/June 2005 related

Humans tend to think in symbols. We consolidate meaning around objects and make them a locus for our perceptions of the world. Some symbols have thus attained very powerful positive or negative meanings. Even 3000 year old solar symbols.

Flash back to the late 1930’s to the mid 1940’s. At the time two of the greatest evils of the twentieth century, the holocaust and the terrors of one of the most destructive wars of all times, swept across Europe and in their wake followed a very distinctive flag.

The symbol on that flag has become even more anathema than the ideals which the flag is seen as representing, after all we haven’t managed to abolish racists or fachists, in some parts of the world both racism and fachism remain as powerful sources of suffering as they ever were.

Flash foreward to the present again. On page 21 of Kung Fu Magazine is an artist’s rendition of the proposed Green Dragon Mountain Buddha statue.

Buddhism, the oh so hard to pidgeonhole not-religion/religion/philosophy/lifestyle, is not known for intolerance and cruelty. Yet right there on the heart of the reclining Buddha is the Swastika. To some that might seem surprising, if they don’t know the history of this particular symbol.

It emerged in India (amoung a group of people who despite their dark hair and dark eyes have infinately more claim to the term “aryan” than any blond haired, blue eyed thug) as a symbol representing the Sun. This symbol was filled with all the beneficial ideas of what the sun was: life giver, warmth giver, bringer of day. The ultra-ascetic, insanely pacifistic Jainist faith adopted this symbol as one of their key religious symbols.

About 2500 years ago a certain young noble became a renounciate, recent study suggests that the masters at whose feet he made the first, misdirected attempt at enlightenment were likely jainists. This man eventually became the Lord Buddha and as Buddhism formed from Jainists, Hindus and others over the course of his life that symbol, along with others drawn from Jain and Hindu sources (such as the third eye and the lotus) became the basis for a symbolic representation of this new teaching.

Hitler later appropriated this symbol for his army of fanatics. Why did he steal so much from India? I don’t know, I’ll be honest about that. However when you observe modern European and North American Buddhist establishments that symbol has (in my reasonable but not comprehensive experience) been absent, tainted by the filth of the Nazis.

Yet in China it has remained. I have video footage of men, dressed as warrior monks (though whether they are or not I don’t know) marching in a circle in this pattern and now the largest Buddha on earth may bear it on his heart.

It raises a question: we value symbols. This particular symbol has a legacy of almost 3000 years as a sign of life, warmth and prosperity and a legacy of sixty years of cruelty, death and anathema.

The question I pose: which past in the end holds more importence, should the Swastika be reclaimed by the Jainists and Buddhists of the world or should it remain forever the grim mark of two of the twentieth centuries greatest evils?

Also a second question, one to mull over: What would have happened had Hitler chosen to defile the Crucifix instead?

We Buddhists never renounced our claim on the swastika

Check out Chapter 5, episode 4 of my Shaolin Trips column - if you scroll down to the pic of the master with the lampshade on his head, you’ll find a short reference to a Shaolin swastika experience I had. Swastikas are only shocked in a Nazi sort of way to Westerners. In Asia, they are commonplace. I remember when I saw my first swastika tattoo at Shaolin - it was on the upper arm of a young Chinese man, and it was amatuer, blue and scraggly like a bad white-supremacist prison tat. That shocked me. But now, I’ve seen so many swastikas in Buddhist design, it no longer has that hold.

I do have a Shaolin swastika tie-tack - it’s red with a gold swastika. It looks extremely nazi here and I’ve fought the temptation to wear it.

Swastika use is more shocking in India. There you’ll see swastikas everywhere, often in red drippy paint, like blood. I have this old pic of a weird industrial crane with a huge swastika painted on it - it’s very intense in a nazi sort of way. At the same time, a local newspaper was running these billboards that had a painting of Hitler sans moustache with the catch phrase saying something about ‘not being the same without it’. Ah, India. Talk about a culture with a rich symbolic world. India is simpy amazing.

My point is that India and China are two of the most populated countryies in the world and to them, the swastika is still Buddhist/Hindu. It appears everywhere, in everyday life. It’s only the western minority that views it as nazi. Ironically, at least from a Buddhist perspective, the nazi swastika is somewhat appropriate as a symbol of massive change. Change can be good or evil.

There’s always that thing about which way the swastika rotates, but that’s not really true. The nazi one goes one way, the Buddhist/Hindu one goes both ways.

In regards to your second question, I think Hitler did defile the Christian faith since he was Christian, albeit a very very bad one. Today, most white supremicist movements adopt a Christian foundation, which is so ridiculously wrong considering that the good book didn’t originate from white people, really. Of course, you’re speaking on a symbolic level, which is different.

I might move this thread to the Shaolin forum, just because I think you’ll get more response there than here. We’ll see if this gets some posts. If not, I’ll probably move it. You know how the Shaolin forum loves this sort of stuff…

OK, I moved this…

The media forum wasn’t very interested - I think this might have been too heady for them. Maybe it’ll create some discussion here. I think it has more potential on the Shaolin forum with more Buddhists, pseudo-Buddhists, and fashion-Buddhists posting. We’ll see, eh?

Humans tend to think in symbols.

Do we? Where is that idea coming from? We express meaning with symbols, but do we “think” in symbols?

I am not certain that this is true.

How we think…

That’s a good question. When I was a doctoral candidate in cognitive psych, half of the department was psycholinguistic, so they might propound that we think in words not symbols. Symbols would be more Jungian, I suppose. Anyway, the psycholinguists were somewhat jammed by the notion of Chinese characters. Are Chindese characters words or symbols? I’d say they’re a bit of both. It’s a classic example of how everyday eastern experiences elude western boxes.

I think…lol, that for the most part we think in terms of linguistics. We visualize with pictures either abstract or realistic but most times we think in the language we speak and sort out our thought with internal debate or monologue in as logical a fashion as we are each capable of.

Writen language is symbols regardless of the language, but I am not so sure we think in the format of text so much as we “hear” our own voice in our minds and hold speak sessions with it.

For instance, as you type out your reply are you thinking in abstract symbols? Or are you thinking more or less the same way as you would speak? hmmmn? be honest now. :stuck_out_tongue:

Sort of on-topic

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/050408.html

Well,

I seem to remember visiting a friend of mine’s house and seeing a picture of a bi-plane with a swastika on the side. The strange thing was, it was blue and white. I asked him about it and he told me that it was the symbol for the Finnish Air Force and Army until about 1944 and never had any negative connotations.

I also look into my vast experience with Medieval European Heraldry and remember that the gammadion (the modern swastika) was a commonplace charge (symbol) used in heraldic devices (more commonly, but incorrectly, called a coat of arms). In fact, it could have two or more “arms” and was either clockwise or counter-clockwise.

This seems to tell me that the supposition of the swastika being a “negative” or “evil” symbol might often be based in it’s name. If you asked a monk if he had any tattoos and he replied that he had a gammadion, no one would be concerned that he might be a nazi.

It is sad that 100 years of hate-driven history can scar a “positive” symbol that’s thousands of years old. Maybe some day people will see past this, or maybe not. One can only hope.

Yeah, the swastika was also a very old Germanic rune that stood for “male” and “strength.” Hitler used it to help the Germans remember their roots as a strong and independent country.

See? I knew it would get more attention here…

…those media forum guys are just into movies and comics… :rolleyes:

There was an early school of psycholinguistics that beleived that thought was subvocalization - which is to say that it what you thought was just what you said, really really quietly. One researcher went so far as to have his vocal chords paralyzed to proof that he would still think. So much for that theory. That being said, I can think of many times that I didn’t think in words. In fact, that’s a huge aspect in the process of writing - often I know what I want to say but can’t find the words. But for a more concrete example, take smell memories. Smell is the most evocative and least understood sense. I’m sure you’ve had the experience of cathcing some smell and getting all sorts of associations from it. Smells like the fragrance of a past lover can evoke all kinds of responses, none of which I would consider linguistic or symbolic.

BTW, if you want to seduce someone using smell and wear perfume or cologne, covertly place a few drops on any lightbulb near them that they might turn on later. When they turn on the light, the heat will release ‘your smell’ and trigger all sorts of associations. You can also place a few drops on the nose rests of someone’s glasses. That’s a shaolin seduction secret - don’t tell anyone I told you… :wink:

I was told the Nazi swastika was the reverse of the Buddhist/Hindu one. Can anyone verify this?

yes. the nazis reversed the swastika and tilted it.

I’m a bit of a Jungian. :slight_smile: I’m also left handed. Left handed people tend to be right-brain dominant and the right half of the brain is the section that is more likely to process symbolic datum. So I am a bit biassed in this regard but I do maintain that symbolic cognition is at the foundation of linguistic thought. Words are themselves symbols for things.

Yes to both questions. I do think of words as a very complex group of abstract symbols. We are associating a random sound with an idea. That is a symbolic association.

Symbols verse Sounds

The question I pose: which past in the end holds more importence, should the Swastika be reclaimed by the Jainists and Buddhists of the world or should it remain forever the grim mark of two of the twentieth centuries greatest evils?

The answer, I am afraid, really isn’t in reclaiming the symbol (at least from a Buddhists point of view). It is in the message that is lost regarding this differences in the use of the Swastika. The truth is any symbol or any political system and/or religion for that matter can be twisted to fit an agenda. A seemingly harmless little comic sketch can start world wide riots (possibly a worldwar 3 strom brewing) when people are not mindful about respect and open dialogues. We human has hardly learn the cold hard lessons that were written with blood.

Also a second question, one to mull over: What would have happened had Hitler chosen to defile the Crucifix instead?

He wouldn’t possibly have the support of the “people” and couldn’t have raised an army in the first place if that’s the case given the social context and historic setting. A wolf who doesn’t shealth himself in a sheep’s clothing is nothing but a wolf. Anyone with a sane and educated mind will see that and avoid it at all cost. So… :wink: :smiley:

Mantis108

See I disagree with your second point. The antisemitism Hitler exploited had Christian roots. He could have just as easily exploited Christian imagery. Look at the KKK they used to have pretty signigicant influence in the American South.

Hi SimonM

I don’t think Hilter ever intented to take on the Christians as a whole. You do realize the insurmountable power of the Christians as a whole, right? The antisemitism was a calculated political risk to expropriate the wealth that is in the hands of the Jewish community at the time, which meant very little to the Catholic and Christian communities IMHO. Aggression towards the Jewish people then might just got hilter a little slap on the hand from the international community at large at most (United Nations wasn’t even born yet) - that’s the rationle behind the move. It seemed that in the beginning his calculation was on the mark but then later things got out of control. In some ways, it’s reminiscent of Mao’s Cultural Revolution, which is a much smaller scale of course.

What he simply interested in the symbols was the mysterious power that he preceived as giving him the winning edge. To defile any Christian symbol might just tilt that scale of balance of power for him. Pitching occult power(s) against one Almighty God’s power has far too many complications that no polictical sage or military savvy will ever undertake. Paraphrasing Sammo Hung and Jackie Chan’s Kung Fu flicks comic scripts, “He might be insane but he’s no imbecil”. :wink: Don’t forget he rose as a man of charisma. “Looking” good is everything (including the uniforms).

Warm regards

Mantis108

I don’t think a conscious inversion of the meaning behind the Swastika was intended though. The defilement was a result of those things it came to mean as Hitler piled attrocity upon attrocity. Likewise when I referred to him defiling the crucifix I simply meant what if he had chosen to use the cross as the symbol of Nazi Germany rather than the Swastika.

Well, this thread came back to from the dead…

Of course, I’ve been known to raise the dead…:cool:

When it comes to the swastika,
there is an old Chinese adage,
Fotuo zhou fen
“Smear the Buddha’s head with ****”

OMG! Gene is a necromancer! Everybody run! :stuck_out_tongue: