Stupid Canadian Politics...

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1093319]The stupidity of the liberals arrogance in causing an election that no one wanted and that was destined to bite them on the ass, has caused them to get beaten like a red headed step child.
And deservingly so.
The increase in the NDP vote shows that disilusionment of the BQ and Liberal voters.
While I am not a fan of majority governments, it was inevitable under the circumstances of the opposition forcing this stupid election.
We will see what Harper does with a majority.
The sooner they get rid of Ignatiff and his ilk from the liberals, the better.
Next up" Mcguinty and his HST liberals !
Won’t be too soon for me ![/QUOTE]

I’m with you on the provincial thing. Although, McGuinty did do a lot for education in the province. Full day Kindergarten for instance, increase in daycare subsidies and on the flip side, the double cohort that happened in the beginning of his term when they eliminated grade 13. However, he has been just a major d*ck on most other things and is virtually useless as a business and energy negotiator. Also, he’s lax in his ability to ensure adequate delivery of health care.

But our Choices are Horvath and Houdak…both of whom are a lot less appealing than even McGuinty. Crikey!!! Ontario is a cluster hump for sure. lol I should move back to the peg where a dollar is a dollar, a spade is a spade and a good cigar is a darn fine cigar.

Ontario is the topsy turvy world of the specialized agenda, left wing media bias and general chaos and nonsense. What a goofy province. lol

Yeah, I read the liberals won the fewest seats in their history and that the conservatives are now the majority Party. Looks like you guys’ election was alot like our 2010 midterm elections. Things will only get better up there.

[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1093385]Yeah, I read the liberals won the fewest seats in their history and that the conservatives are now the majority Party. Looks like you guys’ election was alot like our 2010 midterm elections. Things will only get better up there.[/QUOTE]

Yep, the Liberals got waxed hard and it was entirely because of arrogance and having the wrong guy at the helm twice in a row.

The Conservative retained power they had and shored it up further with a majority.

Things weren’t that bad up here fyi. We had a bumpy 2009, but 2010 sees as us pretty strong. We would be better off if the US could get their economic situation in hand seeing as we are so closely linked in that respect.

All in all, the political landscape is pretty healthy. I think most Canadians with the exception of the really far left whining contingent are ok with the results of last nights election.

We might have a few reservations about Harper, but Layton will certainly speak up and show up more for work than Ignatieff ever did.

The ironic part is that Michael Ignatieff would likely be of better use to American politics where he can go back to now. lol

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1093327]I’m with you on the provincial thing. Although, McGuinty did do a lot for education in the province. Full day Kindergarten for instance, increase in daycare subsidies and on the flip side, the double cohort that happened in the beginning of his term when they eliminated grade 13. However, he has been just a major d*ck on most other things and is virtually useless as a business and energy negotiator. Also, he’s lax in his ability to ensure adequate delivery of health care.

But our Choices are Horvath and Houdak…both of whom are a lot less appealing than even McGuinty. Crikey!!! Ontario is a cluster hump for sure. lol I should move back to the peg where a dollar is a dollar, a spade is a spade and a good cigar is a darn fine cigar.

Ontario is the topsy turvy world of the specialized agenda, left wing media bias and general chaos and nonsense. What a goofy province. lol[/QUOTE]

Can’t argue there.
One hopes someone semi-decent will emerge, LOL !

As for Harper, from what he has promised, so far so good…cross fingers..

David, I agree the world is getting better… but I do not like the NDP. They are arrogant and full of themselves.

I went to see my local MP about a disadvantaged woman who was being mistreated in the healthcare system. It was an impromptu visit, so I was wearing street clothes - Jeans and a Hoodie. They seemed irritated to even have to let me in, and when I explained the problem/situation, they quickly said “ok, we’ll have someone check into it. Have a nice day.” Only they didn’t get ANY of the contact info for either me or the woman in question. I had to beg for them to take the info down, which they did, making sure that I knew exactly how much I was bothering them.

I walked out, disgusted. It made me very sad to realize that the NDP is not all that interested in addressing some of the more immediate issues that face many Canadians, such as the lack of family physicians, the incompetence and corruption of clinics and pharmacies, and the schizophrenic ER situation - the woman in question went to the ER, was admitted by the triage nurse, and promptly verbally abused by the attending physician, who felt that her case was not emergent enough, and what the hell was she doing in the ER wasting his time.

So, I’ve personally seen two of the most “socially oriented” groups in Canada completely sh*t on the little guy… one by verbally abusing a person in distress, and the other by acting arrogantly and dismissively towards people that actually voted for them.

And don’t get me started on red tape and bureaucracy… want a part time job slinging food? Impossible without getting your “food serving license.” Want to be a janitor? You’ll need WHMIS and first aid. Want to start a business? Good luck staying up to date with all the hoops you need to jump through… and yes, they’re always adding more; I’ve yet to see hoops get removed.

CRA Corruption

CRA employees scare the f*ck out of me. They have access to all of our info, can modify our info, and although there are official safeguards in place to prevent the infringement of your rights, they are technically not well enforced.

Consider this scenario:

Your crazy ex girlfriend’s new Fiancée dies. The fiancée’s mother works at CRA. Your ex persuades the mother to look up your address and personal info so she can track you down. The mother complies without batting an eye. Suddenly, you get a call out of the blue from your ex, wanting to rekindle the relationship.

Forgetting that she’s crazy, you explore your possibilities. Things go south quick and you remember that she’s insane. You break off contact once again.

Over the next year, you begin to notice weird things: you’re not getting your tax returns, your address is mysteriously changed, and you suddenly owe back-taxes that you did not owe before.

This scenario is, unfortunately, what happened to me.

They say that Federal corruption used to hover around 3%. It wouldn’t surprise me to hear that that number has gone up in recent years, especially considering the quality of “service” I’ve been getting at government offices of late.

That, combined with the realization that some random person you don’t even know can be persuaded to illegally access your personal info, is very disconcerting to me.

[QUOTE=Xiao3 Meng4;1097673]CRA employees scare the f*ck out of me. They have access to all of our info, can modify our info, and although there are official safeguards in place to prevent the infringement of your rights, they are technically not well enforced.

Consider this scenario:

Your crazy ex girlfriend’s new Fiancée dies. The fiancée’s mother works at CRA. Your ex persuades the mother to look up your address and personal info so she can track you down. The mother complies without batting an eye. Suddenly, you get a call out of the blue from your ex, wanting to rekindle the relationship.

Forgetting that she’s crazy, you explore your possibilities. Things go south quick and you remember that she’s insane. You break off contact once again.

Over the next year, you begin to notice weird things: you’re not getting your tax returns, your address is mysteriously changed, and you suddenly owe back-taxes that you did not owe before.

This scenario is, unfortunately, what happened to me.

They say that Federal corruption used to hover around 3%. It wouldn’t surprise me to hear that that number has gone up in recent years, especially considering the quality of “service” I’ve been getting at government offices of late.

That, combined with the realization that some random person you don’t even know can be persuaded to illegally access your personal info, is very disconcerting to me.[/QUOTE]

Brother, if you can prove that and have evidence to support the claim, I would trot on down to the local constabulary immediately and let em know because that is not cool by any measure at all. :eek:

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1097677]Brother, if you can prove that and have evidence to support the claim, I would trot on down to the local constabulary immediately and let em know because that is not cool by any measure at all. :eek:[/QUOTE]

Yes I’ve filed a complaint. If things don’t move like they should, I’m going to the Ombudsman.

Also, I LOLed at the current theme of the revenge thread… my ex was a redhead too. :o

[QUOTE=Xiao3 Meng4;1097668]I went to see my local MP about a disadvantaged woman who was being mistreated in the healthcare system. …when I explained the problem/situation, they quickly said “ok, we’ll have someone check into it. Have a nice day.” Only they didn’t get ANY of the contact info for either me or the woman in question. I had to beg for them to take the info down, which they did, making sure that I knew exactly how much I was bothering them.[/QUOTE]

You’re lying. We all know socialized medicine is the best healthcare system in the world. That sort of stuff only happens when greedy private insurance companies want to save money by denying claims so their CEOs can get paid millions per year.

[QUOTE=Xiao3 Meng4;1097668]Yes I’ve filed a complaint. If things don’t move like they should, I’m going to the Ombudsman.[/QUOTE]

If they move as quickly as our Government run program, the Veterans Administraion (VA), good luck. My dad is still waiting on a claim he filed 7 years ago to get approved by the VA.

[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1097689]You’re lying. We all know socialized medicine is the best healthcare system in the world. That sort of stuff only happens when greedy private insurance companies want to save money by denying claims so their CEOs can get paid millions per year.[/quote]

Fascetiousness aside, I’m well aware that there are many problems concerning Canadian health-care… only it’s not as clear-cut as “socialized/private” IMO.

I come from a Northern Ontario mining city of 250,000. It’s 5 hours away from Toronto. Not that far, but a haul nonetheless.

Canada’s public health care system allows doctors to choose where they would like to work. Guess what: almost NO ONE wants to work up north.

Of course, the private health care system allows this choice too, and guess what: almost NO ONE wants to work up north.

Private health-care exists in Canada in the form of dentistry, some walk-in clinics, and pharmacists. Again, not many people in these professions want to live in isolated communities.

There is so little Western Medicine in some parts of Northern Canada these days that Blue Collar workers who would usually steer clear of alternative medicine (called “Hippy Medicine” by some) are making regular appointments with naturopaths and acupuncturists.

This situation is part of what prompted me to study Chinese medicine.

This, coupled with my earlier posts, means I’m in complete agreement with anyone who says that Canada’s health care system is broken; however I see the break to be less related to the public/private debate and more related to the adequate distribution of health care, no matter what financial model is being used.

If they move as quickly as our Government run program, the Veterans Administraion (VA), good luck. My dad is still waiting on a claim he filed 7 years ago to get approved by the VA.

here, we have a fast-tracking complaint system (this is Canada, after all… king of complaining) that is run by an official called the Ombudsman. The ombudsman is basically a rights advocate who investigates complaints that have been ignored/left unresolved by government offices. They’re generally applied in government complaints, but a “Hybrid Ombudsman” (that’s the real title) deals with complaints relating to the private sector as well - usually sectors that are somehow tied to government funding though, such as universities or private schools.

Do you guys have anything like an ombudsman?

[QUOTE=BJJ-Blue;1097689]You’re lying. We all know socialized medicine is the best healthcare system in the world. That sort of stuff only happens when greedy private insurance companies want to save money by denying claims so their CEOs can get paid millions per year.

If they move as quickly as our Government run program, the Veterans Administraion (VA), good luck. My dad is still waiting on a claim he filed 7 years ago to get approved by the VA.[/QUOTE]

Your dad should have taken his complaint to higher ups… about six years ago. Never had a problem with the VA.

[QUOTE=Drake;1097705]Your dad should have taken his complaint to higher ups… about six years ago. Never had a problem with the VA.[/QUOTE]

He’s repeatedly tried to get Lloyd Doggett’s office to help out. That hasn’t helped much. I told my parents to try Ron Paul’s office, or either of our 2 Senators. My mom said there is a Congressman in San Anotonio who is very helpful to veterans having issues with the VA, he even helps vets in other districts. She just can’t remember who he is, so she is looking into that.

When you say higher ups, to who are you referring? Also, are you a disabled vet?

Any help would be appreciated.

This, coupled with my earlier posts, means I’m in complete agreement with anyone who says that Canada’s health care system is broken; however I see the break to be less related to the public/private debate and more related to the adequate distribution of health care, no matter what financial model is being used.

^This is very true.

It has SFA to do with socialized system and everything to do with people don’t want to face hardship, especially not doctors, lawyers etc.

Any professional is hard to get into isolated communities. It’s not difficult to get hard workers and everyone else, just the over educated types with degrees tend to shun a little physical hardship.

then, there are those who shoulder it well, but in short, it is about distribution of the resources more so than anything else. the money ain’t really an issue, we pay plenty for our system in taxes and for the most part, it’s pretty good and probably a lot better than what you lot down south are stuck with.

People got to sell their houses to get their kids treatment and then they spend the rest of their life struggling to rise out of poverty after they finished paying ridiculously high medical bills. yeah, no thanks, you can keep your suck ass healthcare system America and you’re welcome for all the highly educated Canadian doctors that work in it. :mad:

In short, many doctors are demonstratively jerks and are in it for the money. :stuck_out_tongue:

S.E.P.C. Article

Canada on the Brink of Mass Social Struggles

By propelling Stephen Harper and his Conservative Party to a majority government in the May 2nd elections, the Canadian ruling elite has revealed that its aim is to force workers back to conditions of class oppression not seen throughout most of the twentieth century.

Canada, like the United States and other major industrialized countries, stands on the brink of explosive class struggles. As the elections’ results show, the bourgeoisie’s program of social reaction is opposed by the majority of the electorate. While the Conservatives now hold 54 percent of the seats in the Canada House of Commons, they in fact won the support of less than a quarter of the electorate.

The votes Harper did win were based on a political fraud—claims that the Conservative Party, the result of the merger of the remnants of the Progressive Conservatives and the hard right Reform/Canadian Alliance, are moderates. Warnings about the character of Harper’s policies were dismissed as conspiracy theories about a “hidden agenda.”

The Canadian ruling class is not hiding Harper’s reactionary agenda, however, but shamelessly flaunting it.

Canadian big business is clamoring for the dismantling of Canada’s purportedly “unsustainable” universal public health insurance plan, Medicare. According to a recently released report co-authored by a former Bank of Canada governor and quickly endorsed by the corporate media, Medicare is “suffering from chronic spending disease.” Through a combination of sharply reduced coverage and privatization, responsibility for providing health care is to be shifted from the state to individuals and their families.

The scale of the attacks that are being prepared is revealed not only by the Canadian bourgeoisie’s plans, but also by similar cuts being announced internationally. In all the old industrialized powers, the bourgeoisie has responded to the 2008 crash and the global slump by trying to destroy what remains of the social benefits that workers wrenched from big business through colossal social struggles in the last century.

In Europe, there is rising discussion of the collapse of the euro, as bank bailouts paid for by public funds are cited as pretexts for imposing bitter social cuts on the workers—with workers in Greece reportedly losing 30 percent of their income as a result of these cuts.

In the United States, after trillions of dollars were handed over with no questions asked to Wall Street criminals, both big-business parties are preparing unprecedented cuts to Medicare and the Social Security pension program.

Canadian capitalism has the same agenda and, from its standpoint, cannot do otherwise if it is to stay ahead in the global competition for profits, markets, and strategic influence. This means, however, the end of the period in which Canadian capital could posture as a kinder, more civilized relative of its unrestrained American cousin to the south.

Tectonic shifts in the world capitalist system are propelling the Canadian ruling class towards social reaction and war, to increase its profits and maintain the strategic advantages that flow to it from close ties with US imperialism.

Canadian imperialism has responded to the erosion of US global hegemony by expanding and rearming the Canadian Armed Forces (CAF). The CAF is currently playing a leading role in wars against Afghanistan and Libya. At the behest of the most powerful sections of Canadian capital, Harper has made negotiating a still closer partnership with Washington in the form of a Continental Security Perimeter a top priority.

The ruling elite are well aware that their agenda will be opposed. Canada’s newspapers, for example, are full of commentary complaining about the popular support for Medicare. In response, the Globe and Mail, Canada’s newspaper of record, lauded Harper for his “bullheadedness”—that is his readiness to defy public opinion and run roughshod over democratic rights.

The most important example of Harper’s bullheadedness was his use of the arbitrary powers of the unelected governor-general in December 2008 to avert defeat in a non-confidence vote and avoid being replaced by a Liberal-led coalition. The Globe—owned by David Thomson, reputedly the seventeenth wealthiest person in the world—and all the most powerful sections of Canadian capital supported this constitutional coup, so as to prevent the coming to power of a government they deemed unsuitable.

This agenda places the ruling class on a collision course with the working class, and places revolutionary struggles on the political agenda.

In this regard, the state provocation the Harper government staged last June during the G20 summit in Toronto, where police arrested hundreds without cause and peaceful protesters were violently attacked, takes on new meaning. Harper’s ally, Toronto Mayor Rob Ford, is preparing to use strikebreakers to ram through his privatization plans. On the pages of Toronto dailies, there is discussion of preparing for “French-style” mass protests.

The central political problem facing the working class is the vacuum of political leadership. In the current election, popular hostility to Harper’s platform took the form of a sizeable protest vote for the social-democratic NDP. It was catapulted from fourth place into the Official Opposition, winning 64 additional seats, including 57 in Quebec, where it hitherto had a lone MP.

The NDP is, however, a wholly undeserving beneficiary of the rising political discontent from the working class. The party of the trade union bureaucracy, the NDP is an instrument for politically suppressing the working class.

Like social-democratic parties the world over, the NDP long ago repudiated even its reformist program. Little more than two years ago, it was ready to serve as junior partners in a Liberal-led coalition committed to waging war in Afghanistan and implementing Harper’s corporate tax cuts, with “fiscal responsibility” as it first principle.

In its platform for the just-completed election, it promised to balance the budget in the same time frame as the Conservatives, proposed no tax increases on the rich and proposed to maintain the current levels of military spending—the highest in real terms since World War II.

The working class in Canada as around the world is being thrust into struggle and will fight courageously and tenaciously. But if it is to prevail, and to escape defeats of even greater consequence than the reversals of the past three decades, it must make a new perspective based on a rejection of the capitalist profit system and the common interests of workers all over the world the basis of its struggle.

The Socialist Equality Party of Canada sets as its fundamental task the fight for this perspective in the working class. The many struggles of the working class against plant closures and social cuts must be fused into an independent political movement aimed at bringing to power workers’ governments, in Canada and internationally, that will base economic life on social need, not profit.

Keith Jones

Clement won’t rule out program cuts

Treasury Board head Tony Clement said he would consider shutting entire programs and shrinking the public service to help produce a balanced budget by 2014-2015, according to reports.

Clement was named Treasury Board president on Wednesday, taking over from Stockwell Day, and is tasked with finding savings in other government departments to reduce the deficit, which is projected this year to be $29.6 billion.

On Wednesday, Clement acknowledged that a preferred option for saving money would be through attrition, or cutting public service jobs when people leave or retire.

But on Thursday, he elaborated, telling the Globe and Mail and Ottawa Citizen newspapers that cuts could mean entire programs are shuttered. Programs that might have been important 30 years ago may no longer be the best way to spend public money today, he said.

Patty Ducharme, the national executive vice-president for the Public Sector Alliance of Canada, the largest public sector union, said she was not surprised by the news. Ever since the government first talked about reducing staff through attrition, public service unions have said such a plan was not possible or practical.

“I’m dismayed though, given the fact that what this government has been saying leading up to the election was that there would be job reductions, but those reductions would come through attrition and nothing more than attrition,” Ducharme said.

“One day into the job and now he’s telling the truth. Thanks Tony.”

Ducharme said she was at a loss as to which government programs might be targeted.

“All of these people play a critical role in the Canadian government and for people who work and live in Canada,” she said.

Ducharme said PSAC president John Gordon has asked to meet with Clement since his appointment, but a meeting has yet to be confirmed.

Clement said he was still being briefed on his new portfolio. He said a strategic and operational review of all government services, to be completed in the next year, would help steer the government toward a balanced budget.

Public servants weighed in on Friday, expressing some trepidation about potential cuts.

“General concerns are if it will be affecting myself and people I know, and programs I work for,” said Cecil Goyette.

Another public servant, Sergey Vershinin, felt the possible program cuts were in line with a Conservative agenda.

“Well they didn’t have a majority and now they do, so it’s not surprising, and I think in line with what was expected,” he said.

Hmmm, programs that are ~30 years old…

In 1984, the Canada Health Act was passed, which prohibited user fees and extra billing by doctors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Canada#The_beginning_of_coverage

Tha Keith Jones is an idiot, and/or a rabid socialist. I couldn’t even finish that diatribe.

Why would Big Business want the Gov’t heathcare system ended? If it is, THEY are now on the hook for employees plans. It’s obviously the people who are tired of it, they have to wait in lines while the ‘Big business’ guys simply go south and go to American doctors and hospitals to avoid the waits.

And what in the world does he propose to do instead of cutting Gov’t jobs and waste? Borrow it from China forever? In his world, Big Business is bad, but yet they have to live within their means. Maybe Gov’t should try that. And Big Business has to pay their workers out of their own pockets, Gov’t just has the taxpayers pay for it’s employees.

There is a reson this country is the world’s richest nation, the free market. And now there is a reason China’s economy is growing at such a fast pace that they will pass us by in the not-so-distant future: While we are now embracing more socialist economic policies and restricting the free market, we are falling back, yet China is embracing the free market and getting rid of certain socialist economic policies and their economy is going through the roof. But these foolish Western egghead socialists cant see the forest through the trees.

the health care issue has nothing to do with the fact that its a public system and everything to do with the fact that we treat our bodies like sh1t and expect others to make us better with drugs… huge mistake, we are a society of pharma-junkies and its just getting worse… i wont even take an aspirin unless its really bad… i know people who eat like 10 advils a day as a part of their routine… disgusting… and thats nowhere near as bad as somebody on any of the more potent and less tried and tested meds…

about the election
im glad to see the bloc fail so bad. the libs got what they deserved, the ndp filled the void, and a green is actually going to parliament… im ok with all of that… my only real problem is that harper won and got a majority… i dont like that party at all… they do not stand for me and mine and actually harm me and mine in the longterm… if i could snuff him out i would…

[QUOTE=Syn7;1098537]the health care issue has nothing to do with the fact that its a public system and everything to do with the fact that we treat our bodies like sh1t and expect others to make us better with drugs… [/QUOTE]

Socialized medicine systems are failing all over the world, not just in Canada.

And of course people overuse meds up there, the drugs are ‘free’. That’s another huge problem socialized medicine brings, demand skyrockets. Why not go to the doctor if you are sneezing? If your stomach feels heavy, just go to the hospital. It’s ‘free’ after all. That’s why EVERY time it’s tried the beaurocrats who set the costs are ALWAYS underestimating the demand which invariably results in lines, waits to see specialists, and death panels.

[QUOTE=Syn7;1098537]if i could snuff him out i would…[/QUOTE]

So you advocate murdering leaders who you do not agree with when you cant get them out of office using the democratic process?

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1097745]In short… and are in it for the money. :p[/QUOTE]

Why shouldn’t they be??? :confused:

Why do you work David?

I know I do my job for the money. It certainly isn’t for fun and prestige.

Do you expect someone who pays over $100,000 in education for their career to not expect a good return on their investment? Or is every Canadian doctor suppose to be an altruistic fool?

[QUOTE=mooyingmantis;1098547]Why shouldn’t they be??? :confused:

Why do you work David?

I know I do my job for the money. It certainly isn’t for fun and prestige.

Do you expect someone who pays over $100,000 in education for their career to not expect a good return on their investment? Or is every Canadian doctor suppose to be an altruistic fool?[/QUOTE]

That’s the rub and it’s not about altruism, it’s about the oath they take and the service of it. Which it would take mere moments to find numerous examples of all too many who disregard it.

The universal professional arts are regulated, certified and protected by other bodies.
Architecture, Medicine, Engineering and Law. these are the big 4 establishments and institutions which may not be practiced in any way shape or form in public service without a ticket so to speak.

Anyway, with Doctors, when money comes first, you can have that Doctor, I’ll take the one who approaches it as a passion and a duty as is constantly inculcated into the practitioners as they go through their journey of becoming that.

I don’t begrudge a good pay scale for them, but I do feel that in that type of service that you shouldn’t be allowed to self govern anymore than police, military or other necessary services. It is the self governance aspect that causes many of the problems, shortages, and brain drain.