Ah listen, JP…won’t comment on your assessment of William Cheung’s use or non-use of leads and crosses, as I have already explained my position on that particular exchange between those two particular people (William Cheung and Rafael Ramos).
But tell me this:
How much of what you saw William Cheung do on that vid reflects what you would expect to see from a HFY wing chun practitioner against a man fighting/sparring like Rafael Ramos?
50 ?
70% ?
85% ?
100% ?
[QUOTE=JPinAZ;775373]
Also, IMO, people cross train because they find hole in what they are learning. This is what MMA is all about. So far, from what I found in WC, it has the answers to deal with a boxer. At least from my previous experience.
[/QUOTE]
IMO cross training can help us circumvent our limitations… Imagine, if you knew you were going to fight someone highly skilled in Wing Chun in a year or so.. What would you do/train? Would you train harder in WCK or add something different to your skillset?
All arts have limitations.. It’s the nature of specializing… By going outside one’s art and experiencing other arts one can broaden their horizons and options…
In fact, there are so many areas that one can study that relates to martial arts… When you take into consideration all there is to learn out there and all that one might need or use… you begin to get a real sense of how little time there is to train and how little we really know… Still, being a well rounded martial artist while maintaining your preferred focus of study is IMO what MMA is really all about, and can be invaluable..
"IMO cross training can help us circumvent our limitations… Imagine, if you knew you were going to fight someone highly skilled in Wing Chun in a year or so.. What would you do/train? Would you train harder in WCK or add something different to your skillset?
All arts have limitations.. It’s the nature of specializing… By going outside one’s art and experiencing other arts one can broaden their horizons and options."
***THIS IS a very good point. If I knew that one year from now I was going to have an all-out encounter against a another skilled wing chun guy…besides training my own wing chun heavy duty - I would also spend plenty of time training hooks, uppercuts, overhands, and takedowns.
A serious and well timed hook punch that comes out of nowhere can really change the world-perspective of the typical wing chun fighter who has (by definiton) a penchant for straight line short range vertical punch attacks.
The same with a nicely set up (and close quartered) takedown, be it a body lock takedown or a shoot to the legs.
Does this mean that wing chun has no defenses against such things?
No.
But these are examples of where some of wing chun’s potential weaknesses lie.
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;775564]Ah listen, JP…won’t comment on your assessment of William Cheung’s use or non-use of leads and crosses, as I have already explained my position on that particular exchange between those two particular people (William Cheung and Rafael Ramos).[/QUOTE]
Good, because I can read, and already read it 
But a wrote a lot more than just an assesment of what was on the video..
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;775564]
But tell me this:
How much of what you saw William Cheung do on that vid reflects what you would expect to see from a HFY wing chun practitioner against a man fighting/sparring like Rafael Ramos?
50% ?
70% ?
85% ?
100% ?[/QUOTE]
I don’t know, because I don’t know the conditions they set up for what looked like a ‘drill’. From what I saw, it looked like GM Cheung was working on both counters (using what I might call gate theory) and entries against the boxer, but then broke away every time - I am guessing, to reset and start again. So, not really sure what your question is asking, since I don’t know the true context of the video. If they were demoing true ‘sparring’, I wouldn’t advise the breaking away and restarting, once he was in, he would most likely finished the job and took the boxer down. So, I guess this was just a drill.
Besides, this is just ‘visual’. I can’t tell what he truely was doing by watching a video. Was he working under the guidlines of given concepts and principles? Was he just working techniques? Was he using gate theory or not? This is the problem with a video, it doesn’t tell you any of these things - you only see the results. It tells nothing of intention or what’s driving the actions.
So, to compare what I ‘see’ someone else do and what I would expect from a HFY guy is a rather silly question IMO. Why would you ask something like that in the first place?
JP
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;775575]***THIS IS[/B] a very good point. If I knew that one year from now I was going to have an all-out encounter against a another skilled wing chun guy…besides training my own wing chun heavy duty - I would also spend plenty of time training hooks, uppercuts, overhands, and takedowns.
A serious and well timed hook punch that comes out of nowhere can really change the world-perspective of the typical wing chun fighter who has (by definiton) a penchant for straight line short range vertical punch attacks.
The same with a nicely set up (and close quartered) takedown, be it a body lock takedown or a shoot to the legs.
Does this mean that wing chun has no defenses against such things?
No.
But these are examples of where some of wing chun’s potential weaknesses lie.[/QUOTE]
No offence meant here, but practicing suprise attacks sounds like you are counting on getting lucky, and doesn’t sound like you are working withint the concepts/principles of WC.. But maybe that’s not your intention (to fight with WC)?
[QUOTE=YungChun;775566]IMO cross training can help us circumvent our limitations… Imagine, if you knew you were going to fight someone highly skilled in Wing Chun in a year or so.. What would you do/train? Would you train harder in WCK or add something different to your skillset?[/QUOTE]
Not sure what ‘our limitations’ means.. are you speaking for everyone, or yourself?
I would just train what I currently train - WC. Maybe harder because sometimes I get a little lazy with conditioning. I am not sure I understand the point of this question, why train something else if I feel what I already train works for me.
[QUOTE=YungChun;775566]All arts have limitations.. It’s the nature of specializing… By going outside one’s art and experiencing other arts one can broaden their horizons and options… [/QUOTE]
I can agree with the second part…
[QUOTE=YungChun;775566]In fact, there are so many areas that one can study that relates to martial arts… When you take into consideration all there is to learn out there and all that one might need or use… you begin to get a real sense of how little time there is to train and how little we really know… Still, being a well rounded martial artist while maintaining your preferred focus of study is IMO what MMA is really all about, and can be invaluable..[/QUOTE]
You’re right, there is a LOT of MA’s out there! I feel there is a downside to practicing/training a ‘little’ or ‘some’ of everything, and not really getting deep into any ‘one’ thing - maybe if one goes deeper in something, they might see they need to cross-train less.. Perhaps this is why one might feel there are limitiations in what they do?
JP
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;775575]***THIS IS a very good point. If I knew that one year from now I was going to have an all-out encounter against a another skilled wing chun guy…besides training my own wing chun heavy duty - I would also spend plenty of time training hooks, uppercuts, overhands, and takedowns.
A serious and well timed hook punch that comes out of nowhere can really change the world-perspective of the typical wing chun fighter who has (by definiton) a penchant for straight line short range vertical punch attacks.
The same with a nicely set up (and close quartered) takedown, be it a body lock takedown or a shoot to the legs.
Does this mean that wing chun has no defenses against such things?
No.
But these are examples of where some of wing chun’s potential weaknesses lie.[/QUOTE]
I have a question regarding this: Why train your Wc, if you plan to use a bunch of techniques that are outside of the principles/concepts of WC? Why not just train the other stuff if that’s what you intend to use?
Also, do you feel your WC can defend against these hooks, jabs, etc? If so, why would you think they would work against another WC guy, unless you were just hopeing you get lucky in the fight?
Maybe the weaknesses are in the individual, and not the system used? (not saying YOU in particular, but I keep reading ‘limitations’ and ‘weaknesses’ in this thread, and maybe don’t understand the context of why this is said)
JP
[QUOTE=JPinAZ;775580]Not sure what ‘our limitations’ means.. are you speaking for everyone, or yourself?[/QUOTE]
Well I guess you don’t feel you have any limitations…?
Most folks realize that both people and systems, because of a particular focus, have LOTS of limitations..
Nothing wrong with specializing so long as you don’t get tunnel vision…
Self Defense… Can mean a million different things… Take a look at what LEO trainers work on… What professional security folks work on…
And there are tons of things that can/should be studied that have nothing to do with plain vanilla classical WCK, no matter the family.
[QUOTE=YungChun;775590]Well I guess you don’t feel you have any limitations…?
Most folks realize that both people and systems, because of a particular focus, have LOTS of limitations..
Nothing wrong with specializing so long as you don’t get tunnel vision…
Self Defense… Can mean a million different things… Take a look at what LEO trainers work on… What professional security folks work on…
And there are tons of things that can/should be studied that have nothing to do with plain vanilla classical WCK, no matter the family.[/QUOTE]
haha, of course I have personal limitations - I’m human right?
The rest just seems like personal opinion, not necessarily facts. And sure, there is nothing wrong with learning whatever one wants too! But that doesn’t mean that everyone feels the need, or that everyone should train many things.. maybe, SOME people find what they train DOES work for them and don’t feel the need to go find something else..
A lot of boxers just train boxing, and are probably realy good fighters. A lot of grapplers just train grappling. Sure there are TONS of things one can study, and some do - AND they can just study what the prefer or what works for them - even if it’s just one thing… nothing wrong with that either. Still do not see your point (?)
[QUOTE=JPinAZ;775595]nothing wrong with that either. Still do not see your point [/QUOTE]
I don’t think you want to see any point..
WCK or any fighting system is one tiny part of what is Self Defense, the core of what is Martial Arts…
Indeed Self Defense is not all about a “Duel” or even fighting as in sport there are a million facets to this thing called martial art..
Most folks don’t realize this, case in point here, seeing only what is on their plate..and so may find themselves limited in situations they had not previously considered..
Cross training in any number of outside areas is generally beneficial not detrimental.. That’s the point..k?
“I first just occupy MY space with proper structure, and either a bridge will come to me, or I will find myself in the range to strike - the height/reach difference between me and my opponent should matter less if I have the right focus, gate theory, space awareness etc. my opponent still has to get his arm past my arms to strike my face right? If I stick to my WC ‘game’, There should be a bridge.” (JP)
***I’M AFRAID NOT, WATSON. your conclusions are erroneous. If his reach is longer - he can hook around your arms and hit your face no matter how good your structure is, gate theory, focus, etc. HE CAN GO AROUND YOUR ARMS.
Based upon the way you describe your strategy/technique.
No bridge will help here if you just limit yourself to the above strategy you outlined. (Assuming you even get bridge contact). You will probably eat a punch to the face or side of the head. He steps in and straight punches and immediately hooks with the same arm as you go for pak, bong, tan, bil, or whatever structure you care to use. There are defenses against this - but if you think that, and I’m quoting you now, “either a bridge will come to me or I will find myself in range to strike” is all you need against a taller man with a longer reach doing what I just said - without you getting hit in the face…LOL.
YOU might have no choice but to go find the bridge - before you simply “find yourself” in range to land a meaningful straight strike - without going one-for-one. (Trading punches). How? By using some long range weaponry of your own - such as punching with your matched lead (horizontally, not vertically - and with some shoulder torque) into the LANE he needs…toward body targets that correspond to where his ELBOW is (approximately)…either hitting a body target (ie. - a shoulder joint or nearby) or getting the bridge contact with his arm…before he’s close enough to make you pay with his hook…
that is, pay for simply being there - in his zone - with your shorter arms (and doing short range vertical fist motions with your centerline facing his body). And if he does hook from there - you now have more time (ie.- enough time) to turn and face your centerline to his body or possibly even the elbow of his hooking arm and do the wing chun simultaneous block and hit thing.
(Because, unlike the “boxer”, you don’t commit total shoulder/body torque when throwing the matched lead, ie.- your turning motion is less than the typical straight stiff boxing lead meant to hit a hard target with power. Power and hard targets are not what you’re shooting for here - you’ve simply made a MANUEVER to help set up your wing chun artillery against a man with a longer reach).
And if he’s keeping his elbows waaay out - then throw the punch kinda like the way Alan Orr and his guys like to throw them - almost a bit rounded; but unlike Alan, STILL MORE HORIZONTAL THAN VERTICAL - thereby throwing longer reaching punches - so as to be in position to intercept (bridge) near his elbows if he attacks from the waaay out position…before he can hook or overhand with any efficiency because he’s too far away for that.
…
(Originally Posted by Ultimatewingchun) But tell me this: How much of what you saw William Cheung do on that vid reflects what you would expect to see from a HFY wing chun practitioner against a man fighting/sparring like Rafael Ramos?
50 ?
70% ?
85% ?
100% ?"
“I don’t know, because I don’t know the conditions they set up for what looked like a ‘drill’. From what I saw, it looked like GM Cheung was working on both counters (using what I might call gate theory) and entries against the boxer, but then broke away every time - I am guessing, to reset and start again. So, not really sure what your question is asking, since I don’t know the true context of the video. If they were demoing true ‘sparring’, I wouldn’t advise the breaking away and restarting, once he was in, he would most likely finished the job and took the boxer down. So, I guess this was just a drill.” (JP)
***NOT A DRILL AT ALL. “Hey Rafael, let’s do some light sparring for the camera, Okay?” So of course he broke away - this wasn’t about landing punches with no gloves on someone’s face.
…
“Besides, this is just ‘visual’. I can’t tell what he truely was doing by watching a video. Was he working under the guidlines of given concepts and principles? Was he just working techniques? Was he using gate theory or not? This is the problem with a video, it doesn’t tell you any of these things - you only see the results. It tells nothing of intention or what’s driving the actions.” (JP)
***SPOKEN like someone with very little sparring experience…because anyone with lots of sparring experience (both hard and soft) would know what spontaneous light sparring looks like, instead of getting bogged down in wondering whether or not (or which) concepts, principles, and gates theories were being used. Answer? All of the above. BECAUSE IT’S RIGHT THERE ON THE VIDEO TO SEE. There’s the Blindside Strategy: by never changing from the southpaw position - thereby maintaining the matched leads - the best position to be in to possibly get a two-on-one arm advantage; blocking high and low as required (gates); simultaneous block and hit; straight line striking on the shortest line between them, etc. (Go back and look at the video).
…
“So, to compare what I ‘see’ someone else do and what I would expect from a HFY guy is a rather silly question IMO. Why would you ask something like that in the first place?” (JP)
***WHY DO YOU THINK, SHERLOCK? (Take a guess).
…
(Ultimatewingchun)***THIS IS a very good point. If I knew that one year from now I was going to have an all-out encounter against a another skilled wing chun guy…besides training my own wing chun heavy duty - I would also spend plenty of time training hooks, uppercuts, overhands, and takedowns.A serious and well timed hook punch that comes out of nowhere can really change the world-perspective of the typical wing chun fighter who has (by definiton) a penchant for straight line short range vertical punch attacks.The same with a nicely set up (and close quartered) takedown, be it a body lock takedown or a shoot to the legs.Does this mean that wing chun has no defenses against such things?No.But these are examples of where some of wing chun’s potential weaknesses lie."
“I have a question regarding this: Why train your Wc, if you plan to use a bunch of techniques that are outside of the principles/concepts of WC? Why not just train the other stuff if that’s what you intend to use?Also, do you feel your WC can defend against these hooks, jabs, etc? If so, why would you think they would work against another WC guy, unless you were just hoping you get lucky in the fight?Maybe the weaknesses are in the individual, and not the system used? (not saying YOU in particular, but I keep reading ‘limitations’ and ‘weaknesses’ in this thread, and maybe don’t understand the context of why this is said.” (JP)
***THE BEST DEFENSES I have ever seen against hook punches come from William Cheung. But that doesn’t change the danger of hooks against the “conventional” use of wing chun when up against a good boxer who can hook off his straight lead when his arms are longer. William is taller than Rafael, and he’s the one with the longer reach. I thought you weren’t going to make me repeat that? 
…
“Quote:Originally Posted by JPinAZ Not sure what ‘our limitations’ means.. are you speaking for everyone, or yourself?”
***I’M TALKING ABOUT ALL WING CHUN. It’s a short arm short range standup striking/kicking system with a few sweeps and a few armlocks.
[QUOTE=YungChun;775596]I don’t think you want to see any point..
WCK or any fighting system is one tiny part of what is Self Defense, the core of what is Martial Arts…
Indeed Self Defense is not all about a “Duel” or even fighting as in sport there are a million facets to this thing called martial art..
Most folks don’t realize this, case in point here, seeing only what is on their plate..and so may find themselves limited in situations they had not previously considered..
Cross training in any number of outside areas is generally beneficial not detrimental.. That’s the point..k?[/QUOTE]
I understand this is you view, but you treat it as fact. I am not going to appologize if I do not see things the same way. It has nothing to do with me ‘wanting’ to see anything.
I totally respect your views (even if it seems you have none for mine). I just don’t agree that one HAS to delve into many different MA’s to properly defend themselves. And certainly not because ‘there are so many options, I should look at as many as I can’. Different strokes for different folks. I say if something works for you stick with it. If you find it doesn’t work, either try harder, or look somewhere else - no big deal.
And yes, I can see where it can be greatly benificial. But if we are talking ‘self defense’, then I can also see where practicing 10 good techniques over and over until they are perfected could also possibly be a good method of self defense.
JP
** "there are a million facets to this thing called martial art.. " I thought a bit more on this, and I say there a million thing that could happen in a fight, and we should be ready for them all. But I don’t think we have to make things over complicated by delving into a million MA’s looking for the answer.
Vic,
I think we are looking at things from 2 very different perspectives. I was referring to actions being driven by concept and theory. It sounds like you are speaking from techniques point of view - so while neither is right/wrong depending on the perspective, we just look at thing VERY differently and I am seeing that you won’t ever see what I am trying to say.
VIC - “***I’M AFRAID NOT, WATSON. your conclusions are erroneous. If his reach is longer - he can hook around your arms and hit your face no matter how good your structure is, gate theory, focus, etc. HE CAN GO AROUND YOUR ARMS.”
This is all hypothetical, but you are forgeting the defences against these things can involve footwork, positioning, STICK, structure, gate theory, etc to defend themselves against these types of things. Something called Chi Kiu comes to mind in this situation. I’m not just going to stand there while he turns his jab (which I would most likely made a bridge with) into a hook. It sounds like you are describing a lucky time frame of fighting - ie, you swing, I defend, you switchup, I counter - loop.
BTW, vic, my name’s not ‘watson’, not ‘sherlock’ - this sounds kinda childish to me, but whatever :rolleyes:
RE: “No bridge will help here if you just limit yourself to the above strategy you outlined.”
No kidding - who said anything about limiting myself? I simply gave a very brief idea of how one could defend against your long range boxing god based on concepts/principals vs. techniques. If you think that the short list I gave is all there is, then you are mistaken.
You advise I use long range weponry of my own against a taller person with a longer reach - he’s obviously going to win that one if he’s got longer reach than me and I am trying to play his game. That sounds like trading punches (lucky fighting) to me! BTW, this sounds much like clasic boxing, which I do have experience with. I know what you’re talking about, and I’m telling you, I’ve found a much more effective and efficient way of dealing with these things.
Besides, you are speaking from YOUR perspective and assuming mine is the same. How can we even have a conversation like that?
VIC: “***SPOKEN like someone with very little sparring experience…because anyone with lots of sparring experience (both hard and soft) would know what spontaneous light sparring looks like, instead of getting bogged down in wondering whether or not (or which) concepts, principles, and gates theories were being used. Answer? All of the above. BECAUSE IT’S RIGHT THERE ON THE VIDEO TO SEE. There’s the Blindside Strategy: by never changing from the southpaw position - thereby maintaining the matched leads - the best position to be in to possibly get a two-on-one arm advantage; blocking high and low as required (gates); simultaneous block and hit; straight line striking on the shortest line between them, etc. (Go back and look at the video).”
Whatever - you know nothing about me. I know what light sparring looks like, and that’s what I see on the video - I thought I said that already? Maybe you see and can identify what is being used because he’s from TWC and you’re from TWC. And that’s cool.
But I could only ‘assume’ what is going on in his mind. Sure, I see what you call the blind-side theory. I see what I might call gate thoery, but that doesn’t mean he’s working under those guidlines (not saying he isn’t either, but unless I spoke with him, I wouldn’t know what he’s using - maybe he would say he was just slap boxing and not using WC - could I argue?)
Vic, like I said already: "You know what I like about this video, not once did you see GM WC have to use a jab or cross on the outside to close the distance. All ‘looks’ like good’ol WC being used to bridge and close the distance "
What’s the problem here?? Because I said I didn’t see him using what you claim HAS to be used against a taller, longer reach boxer? (yes, I understand, GM WC was the taller man, but I don’t think that’s why he stuck with WC in the video)
I am NOT going to go technique for technique against anyone, no matter what you say. If that works for you, or you can’t find an answer in WC, then fine - I’m not going to argue that - use what works for you!
But don’t tell me you know what’s going to happen to me if I use my WC in a fashion you can’t seem to make work. And I don’t mean anything personal by this. But you really don’t know anything about me, nor the WC I practice.
Let me ask you this, and it’s a quite simple direct question: Do you think GM WC would have had to resort to jabs and crosses against the boxer if he was taller and had longer reach than him? Or do you think his WC would stand up?
JP
[QUOTE=JPinAZ;775636]I thought a bit more on this, and I say there a million thing that could happen in a fight[/QUOTE]
See this is what you don’t seem to get.. It’s not all about “a fight”… Especially not all about a “duel type” fight..
The study starts with, your body and how it can be used.. <styles/systems, basic training>
The study continues with the Mental, Spiritual, how to gain control over one’s emotions.. <meditation, adrenal stress conditioning>
The study continues with how to use the mind to gain control over your body…
<meditation, adrenal stress conditioning, scenario training, hard sparring>>
The study continues with understanding how the adrenal stress response changes how our bodies work and the differences between something called “high road” and “low road” responses…
The study continues with mindset training and learning to fight/react even when you feel like you’re on the edge of death and can go no further… When the threat seems so ominous that resistance seems futile..
<meditation, adrenal stress conditioning, cardio, scenario training, mindset conditioning>
The study continues with how to defeat an opponent who is unarmed…
<combative training, de-escalation, scenario training, hard sparring>
The study continues with how to defeat an opponent in a sport environment…
<Understanding using the rule set, cross training, combative training, system adaptation, conditioning, hard sparring>
The study continues with how to control a threat without engaging him <<adrenal stress conditioning, scenario training, tactical awareness training, de-escalation>…
The study continues with how to defeat an opponent when your life is threatened..
<meditation, adrenal stress conditioning, combative training, de-escalation, scenario training, hard sparring>
The study continues with how to defeat an opponent when your loved one’s life is threatened..
<adrenal stress conditioning, combative training, de-escalation, scenario training, tactical training>
The study continues with something called the force continuum, where one’s learns to be prepared to bring as much force to the encounter as is needed, or adapt/improvise the use of greater force/weapons-- starting with verbal self defense all the way up to the use of deadly force…
<<adrenal stress conditioning, scenario training, tactical awareness training, combative weapons training, firearm use training, de-escalation>…
The study continues with how to defeat multiple opponents/threats when your life and/or others is threatened..
<meditation, adrenal stress conditioning, combative training, de-escalation, scenario training, multiple opponent hard sparring, Force Continuum>
The study continues with how to defeat an armed opponent and disarm him..
<adrenal stress conditioning, defensive weapons training, de-escalation, scenario training, tactical training, weapons sparring/training, Force Continuum>
The study continues with how to defeat an opponent armed with an edge weapon..
<adrenal stress conditioning, combative weapons training, de-escalation, scenario training, tactical training, weapons sparring/training, Force Continuum>
The study continues with how to identify who your opponent is, threat identification…
<adrenal stress conditioning, scenario training, tactical awareness training, body language awareness trainining, use of “The Fence”>
The study continues with tactical awareness and how to use your surroundings to both indentify possible threats and control those threats..
<scenario training, tactical awareness training>…
The study continues with the use and application of different weapons you may choose to carry..
The study continues with understanding the laws and liability of using force in different situations in order to protect us from legal and civil penalties when we must use such force..
OR
You could just play Chi Sao until your arms fall off.. 
No matter…
There is a whole world of things that is IN FACT what “martial arts” in the real world means..
That’s not my opinion, that’s reality and a short list of it at that…
[QUOTE=JPinAZ;775636]I thought a bit more on this, and I say there a million thing that could happen in a fight[/QUOTE]
See this is what you don’t seem to get.. It’s not all about “a fight”… Especially not all about a “duel type” fight..
The study starts inside you…
The study continues with, your body and how it can be used.. <styles/systems>
The study continues with the Mental, Spiritual, how to gain control over one’s emotions.. <meditation, adrenal stress conditioning>
The study continues with how to use the mind to gain control over your body…
<meditation, adrenal stress conditioning, scenario training>
The study continues with understanding how the adrenal stress response changes how our bodies work and the differences between something called “high road” and “low road” responses…
The study continues with how to use the mind to gain control over your body…
<meditation, adrenal stress conditioning, scenario training>
The study continues with mindset training and learning to fight/react even when you feel like you’re on the edge of death and can go no further… When the threat seems so ominous that resistance seems futile..
<meditation, adrenal stress conditioning, scenario training, mindset conditioning>
The study continues with how to defeat an opponent without the aid of weapons… <combative training, de-escalation, scenario training>
The study continues with how to defeat an opponent in a sport environment…
<Understanding the use of rule sets, combative training, conditioning, hard sparring>
The study continues with how to defeat an opponent when your life is threatened..
<meditation, adrenal stress conditioning, combative training, de-escalation, scenario training>
The study continues with how to defeat an opponent when your loved one’s life is threatened..
<adrenal stress conditioning, combative training, de-escalation, scenario training, tactical training>
The study continues with how to defeat an armed opponent and disarm him..
<adrenal stress conditioning, defensive weapons training, de-escalation, scenario training, tactical training>
The study continues with how to defeat an opponent armed with an edge weapon..
<adrenal stress conditioning, combative weapons training, de-escalation, scenario training, tactical training>
The study continues with how to identify who your opponent is, threat identification…
<adrenal stress conditioning, scenario training, tactical awareness training>
The study continues with tactical awareness and how to use your surroundings to both indemnify possible threats and control those threats..
<scenario training, tactical awareness training>…
The study continues with how to control your opponent without engaging him <<adrenal stress conditioning, scenario training, tactical awareness training, de-escalation>…
The study continues with something called the force continuum, where one’s learns to be prepared to bring as much force to the encounter as is needed, or adapt the use of greater force, starting with verbal self defense all the way up to the use of deadly force…
<<adrenal stress conditioning, scenario training, tactical awareness training, combative weapons training, firearm use training, de-escalation>…
The study continues with the use and application of different weapons you may choose to carry..
The study continues with understanding the laws and liability of using force in different situations in order to protect us from legal and civil penalties when we use such force..
OR
You could just play Chi Sao until your arms fall off..
No matter…
There is a whole world of things that is in FACT, a part of what is martial arts in the real world today..
That’s not my opinion, dewd, that’s reality and a short list at that…
Won’t say any more about GM Cheung, other than that he’s an awesome wing chun fighter and I’ve learned a great deal from him through the years.
But I will refer once again to this:
PICTURES ARE WORTH A THOUSAND WORDS.
So hopefully I’ll be able to post a vid or two in the near future about all of this - against a taller/heavier man trained in boxing and with a serious left hook.
Jim,
I ‘see’ your point, but what are you really saying with all of this? To me, a fight is a fight. Someone is either trying to hurt me or someone I care about and I am trying to defend them or myelf.
That’s quite a long list (and sure, it could be much longer), and it makes perfect sense. But really, why are you telling me all this? (which I assume it is directed toward me since you are addressing my quote) Are you assuming I do not take any of these things into account in my training? What part of that list are you assuming I do not get?
Also, are you saying one must train many many MA’s to cover all of these things, and that one cannot find these various cultivations is one or just a few of them?
BTW, a lot of these things can be grouped together to greatly shorten the list. Aside for the legal ramifictaions (which a many good schools will cover in some detail), a lot of good MA training covers multitudes of these things at once - strategy, tactics, cardio, meditation, phylosophy, etc
Vic,
I figured as much
Fair enough though, I’ll wait to see your video. I have a questoin regarding the video you are going to make - will it be a ‘sparring demo’ like in GM WC’s, or something else? (and not passing judgement, just curious what angle you will be taking in it)
Jonathan
Totally spontaneous heavy contact sparring with protective gear (ie.- thin semi-fingerless gloves, headgear, etc.) With punches, kicks, elbows, knees that land with power.
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;775685]Totally spontaneous heavy contact sparring with protective gear (ie.- thin semi-fingerless gloves, headgear, etc.) With punches, kicks, elbows, knees that land with power.[/QUOTE]
Sounds good Victor..
What about takedowns? Will the opponent attempt them, or clinch work?
Will you be mainly attempting to stay up or will it only be standup?
Also, how much taller is the boxer than you?
[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;775685]Totally spontaneous heavy contact sparring with protective gear (ie.- thin semi-fingerless gloves, headgear, etc.) With punches, kicks, elbows, knees that land with power.[/QUOTE]
Sounds good, should be interesting.
Are you plannig to just roll film and go, or will there be ‘takes’? I am assuming by ‘spntaneous’ it will be the first.
JP