I know this is probably a very basic question for all you advanced dudes on here, but I’m just beginning my training so you’ll have to bear with me…
The question is on stretching…all my life I’ve been taught that you stretch to the point of pain and hold it, and I’ve taken it a step further and would actually push to the point of it being as painful as I could bear, but without pushing to the point of doing damage. However, I just read an article that said you should never hold your stretch at the point of pain, that you should actually take about 30-40 seconds to get all the way in to the stretch, and just when you get to the point of feeling the first twinges of pain you back off just slightly until the pain is gone and then hold the stretch for 20-30 seconds in the beginning, and then holding it longer as you get more advanced. The article said that stretching should be relatively easy and definitely pain free. I’ve never stretched pain free, but I’ve also never stuck with it long enough to see if my method was productive…
So, what’s the story on stretching, and can anyone recommend a good free source on the internet for more information on stretching.
It’s kind of expensive, but the best book on stretching you will ever read is “Relax into Stretch” by Pavel Tsatsouline.
He’s written two other books on stretching, and a video or two, but the one I mentioned above is the only one I’ve ever read. I’m sure his other ones are very good as well, however.
What about Bill Wallace’s “Dynamic Stretching and Kicking?” It’s only like $10 bucks. It may not be as good as the other one, but if that get’s an A and this one only gets a B, for the price difference it’s worth it.
once you have ben streaching for a while you can take it to the point where you fell the stretch but not pain. it takes a while to tell the difference. definately go with the advice given in the article, but you dont neccessarily have to hold it for that long. i have had excellent results doing a stretch for 10 seconds, 20, and then 30.
Bill Superfoot Wallace, eh? Well, his end product is good, but I don’t know anything about his methods of stretching to get there. For $10 it’s probably not bad though. However, I gaurantee you that Pavel’s will be the best book you’ve ever read. If you get it, have a local bookstore order it for you so you won’t have to pay shipping But if you really can’t get enough money to buy it, then go for Bill Wallace’s book. That’s my advice.
I have to say though, that if you use Pavel’s isometric stretching techniques, there will be pain.. lots of pain.
Every time I train side splits I find myself saying under my breath “You’re gonna pay for this Pavel”.
Seriously though, do some research. I highly recommend Relax Into Stretch, but at the very least read Brad Appleton’s FAQ and maybe Tom Kurz’s columns.
As said previously, do some research. Get to your local library and get hold of all the books you can on stretching, read them and try out the stretches.
Everyone’s different and will find different techniques work for them, in my opinion there’s often good and bad in all the methods and I’ve found the best results come from mixing and matching.
Take it very steady, a dull pain is, unfortunately, to be expected but any sharp pain is a bad sign!! Sure that someone will post something in more depth, sorry I don’t have time myself now!!
Generally you do need to stretch the connective tissues for a good stretch but watch the form, damaging those can be very, very bad!!!
Also look at your goals, if all you want is functional stretching (for general health and better kicks) work for that, there’s no need to go all out for the splits if you don’t need to (and most of us don’t!)
Originally posted by Sleemie I read some of the Kurtz stuff and it seems pretty good. Is anyone familiar with his book “Stretching Scientifically?”
As someone who has found themselves way inflexible (much to my chagrin) I’ve looked at a bunch of books. Kurtz’ book is very good, and I’ve used it to tailor my warmup/etc routine (only dynamic stretches before class, for example). He gives lots of good info, its easy to follow, etc.
Another book that’s good is Stretch and Strengthen by Judy Alter. Its in a totally different vein than Kurtz’s book, but using the two together I have had some good results.
Took over a smeggin year (but I wasn’t pushing myself 100%), but good results. }
I’m gonna give the Bill Wallace book a shot, Dynamic Stretching and Kicking, to see how that works. I can’t find the Kurz book in stock in any of the local book stores to be able to take a look at it, and I’m impatient so I’ll go with what I can get now. It got a lot of good reviews on Amazon, and it’s only $15.00. I’m not looking to do splits or super duper high kicks, I’m just looking for something that will help teach me the correct way to stretch in order to improve my kicks safely and effectively, and I assume the Wallace book will do that. The information on this post has been a real eye opener. I’ve always thought you improved your kicking through static stretching, and that’s what I’ve been doing for the last few days or so, and I overdid it yesterday and now my hammies are sore, which I’ve learned should not be the case if I were stretching correctly.
Yup, if all you’re looking to do is improve your kicks, dynamic stretching is the way to do it. I imagine that book will be perfect.
If I remember correctly, Pavel talks in his book about how Bill Wallace developed his splits beyond horizontal, I think to somewhere approaching 200 degrees apart. He found he was way too loose to kick effectively and actually had to regress his flexibility back to a 180 degree split.
I ordered the kurz book “Stretching Scientifically,” but it’s supposed to take a few weeks to arrive, and that’s IF Barnes and Nobles can get ahold of it. Anywho, I was wondering if someone who’s got the book could explain how to do some exercises using the dynamic stretching techniques. I guess I’ve been brainwashed by reading some of his articles and I don’t want to continue with the same path of only doing the traditional static stretching exercises and then going out and practicing kicks.
I bought the Bill Wallace book, and it seemed like there was really nothing new or different in it, maybe I’m just ignorant to all this stuff, but it pretty much looks like the same ole traditional static stretching that everyone else is doing. Am I missing something?
Didn’t you say the book was called Dynamic Stretching and Kicking? How come it’s just got the same old static stretching stuff in it? Doesn’t it have anything on dynamic stretching at all?
How strange.
Anyway, I’m usually reluctant to give out advice on this kind of thing over the Internet in case someone goes off and cripples themselves by slightly misunderstanding me. Instead I usually pass the buck by pointing in the direction of a well written document or site.
So go and read the dynamic stretching part of the FAQ I posted earlier.
We’re basically talking slow, controlled leg swings, gradually increasing the range of motion as your muscles loosen up. I usually do say, three sets of twelve swings to the front, then side, and rear. I’m fairly sure Tom Kurtz covers these in his columns - with diagrams - go read them again.
Just make sure you’re not swinging too hard and doing ballistic stretches instead of dynamic. That’s a good way to tear a muscle.
As Ironfist hinted - ‘stretching’ is actually a bit of a misnomer. See, increasing a muscle’s range of motion shouldn’t involve physically stretching it. It’s more about teaching your reflexes to allow your muscles to go that far.. or ‘Relaxing into the stretch’. This applies to dynamic stretching as well as static.
Another thing - Strong muscles are easier to ‘stretch’ than weak muscles, and are less prone to injury from overstretching. If you strengthen the muscles you’re trying to stretch you’ll probably make gains much quicker. This is partly why isometric stretching is so good.
Sorry - Information overload. I love talking about stretching.
Sorry to be a nuasance, but since you love to talk about stretching, and I need to hear about it right now, I guess this should work out fine. I did read a bit on the isometric stretching, could you describe how to do a few specific exercises so I can create a routine for my lower body, to include the lower back. Right now, I’m basically concerned about stretching for kicking, I’ll just go with what we do in class for my upper body. From what I read, you should not do isometric stretching every day. As I think about it, could you give me some advice on a stretching routine, without being overly ambitious at this point because I don’t want to get discouraged or burned out on stretching, but rather begin with a moderate routine and work my way up. This is my situation…I go to class on M-W-F evenings, and during warming up we do some static stretching, and we practice kicking, stances and some basic punching/blocking techniques. I also want to do some more effective type of stretching on my own either before or after class, such as the dynamic or isometric (whichever one you recommend), and I also want to stretch on the days when I don’t have class. Ideally I’d like to stretch in the morning and evening, but to be realistic knowing how I am about getting up in the mornings, I want to start with a once a day in the evening routine, possibly twice a day on weekends when I don’t have to get up so early for work and all, but during the week once a day.
Before I give you my thoughts let me give you little bit about my background. I have been performing stretching exercises (yoga as well) almost daily for 30 years and have participated in the martial arts for 25 years. I am not naturally flexible as some people are fortunate enough to be blessed. I stretch for about an hour a day and have been performing the full splits for over 25 years. I am presently 43 years old.
The recommendation that you posted in your original post is excellent advice. I would start with that and learn from how your body responds. Some individuals are naturally flexible so they can get away with more dynamic types of stretching. You should not start with these types of stretching until you have developed a strong base of flexibility.
Developing flexibility takes time, patience and consistency. I would stretch 5-6 days a week in the manner prescribe in your original post. Stay away from the dynamic and isometric types of stretching for a couple of years. They will not significantly affect the speed of your progress and can substantially hinder you because it is easier to injure yourself.
Absolutely do not do serious full on stretching twice a day until you have developed a good amount of flexibility. A small warm up type stretch in the morning is okay, but not a full in depth program. Your muscles cannot handle it yet. Wait at least 2 years or more depending on how consistent you are able to be with your stretching. You will end up over stretching and pull or tear your muscles and possibly your ligaments. Injuries interfere with your training progress so it is always better to do a little too less than too much. Ligaments take a very long time to heal because they have very limited blood flow, so you want to avoid injury to them as much as possible.
It is okay to do some light stretching before your training, but generally save the full stretching program for after your workout when your muscles are warm. A full stretching program when your muscles are cold should be an absolute no-no for you. I will do cold stretching at times myself, but I have been at it for a very long time and have made my mistakes so I know what my limits are. I would avoid serious stretching when you muscles are cold until you have developed more body awareness.
I hope this information is of some benefit to you.
From what you’ve posted, your goal is basically to improve your kicking. I’d say all you really need to do is focus on your dynamic stretching. Just do the routine highlited in the Tom Kurz article I posted. Leg swings to the front, side and rear - once or twice a day if you can. You don’t need to warm up if you’re easing into it nicely. It should only take 15 minutes or so. Then practise your kicks as much as you can and you’ll be a kicking genius in no time.
I wouldn’t worry too much about isometric stretching unless you’re looking to improve your ability to sit in the splits or something. My comment about isometrics to increase strength was just a bit of a side point. You could strengthen the muscles by lifting weights just as effectively.
A point about isometrics. I strongly advise not doing isometric stretches before your workout or martial arts lesson. In fact, if you’re going to do isometric stretching, leave it 'till after you’re done working out for the day or for a day when you’re not going to be exercising.
I’ve made this mistake a couple of times. Each time I’ve not been able to sleep an entire night due to the pain. Not recommended. :eek:
And yes, don’t do isometrics every day. Three times a week is more than enough.
Coming up with a routine for someone over the Internet is difficult. For one thing I can’t see where you are with your stretching at the moment. Some people are more comfortable with certain stretches than others. It’s very individual.
If you’ve got more specific queries I’ll be glad to address them as best I can.
But if you really can’t get enough money to buy it, then go for Bill Wallace’s book. That’s my advice.
