Can you hit a baseball or golf ball with your stance without change. No? then clearly your stance is wrong. Can you powerlift with your stance? etc. the right stance and correct structure will work for all thgings because the bvody is being used the way it was designed.
Is it safe to assume that if kicks to the knees & groin were allowed in these sports, that they might modify the stance a little bit? -And how about if every time they tried to do their thing, one of their opponents attempted to execute a leg sweep on them?
You do not understand at all . you are totally missing the core and looking for superficial things to argue.
All the physical activities i mentioned have one thing in common. They all require the use of power generated from the lower body. From the ground through the ankle to the knee then to hip then waiste through shoulder out through arm.
I am talking about how to use the human skeloton correctly. tendons etc.
If you know anotomy you wouls know the body is assembled in a particular way. Joints all support each other in a particular way. there is only one way that this suport is optimal and no other. One and one alone. This is what i am talking about. You talking about someone kicking you or hitting or speed. Thia is all first level stuffs not core. Not key.
How to use your body the way it was designed is the key. There is always someone faster or stronger. speed and strength fade with age but the ability tro use the body does not. How does a 1oo lb woman defeat a 200lb man. Not through strength or speed but through using her natual tools in the most efficiant manner possible.
Look at a skeloton and play with it. move it you will see the joint only fit togetrh perfectly one way.
If your wing chun stance is correct then you can play all other physical thjings that require bringing energy up from the ground or sending it into the ground with out and changes at all. if you cannot to other sporst with your wing chun stance than it is not the optimum stance to use the bodies natural tools and strengths.
I know because anything I say I have tried and can do. First I tell you. I am not big 5’7 maybe 140 pounds. Also was never big athlete type. When I come to America a friend take me to play golf. In 1 week I have 9 handicap. This was because I just take wingchin stance and use wing chun way to hit ball. Instucture think I natual golfer. was big laugh but all i do was stand like my siu lin tau and hit ball goes nice and straight and they say far for my size. Friends teach me softbal. I do same thing take stance and hit. Last year whne working in San Fransisco I go to party with football players big joke when 300 pound man can not move me. Then a Coach says hey that is way we try to teach offensive lineman to block but odff course all so big and stong good technique out the window. We have big laugh and good time but of course he is right is same. They just use more upper body lean but use lower body the same and lower body is the key.
How I know others dont do it right. Others do but I can tell from the questions that those that question dont. Those that know have no need to say they do. They just smile at all others.
OF COURSE it’s important to be able to optimize your body’s natural strength from your stance, but it is not the ONLY thing…
If optimizing the amount of force one could generate were the only consideration, then why throw; short, straight, compact Wing Chun punches? -Why not throw your entire body into every punch like a major leauge pitcher? (Another sports analogy for you.)
Any combat principle taken to an extreme can begin to become a detriment, so I practice Wing Chun in such a fashion that I try to find a “middle way” which does not emphasize any one concept at the expense of others.
is the imbalance advantageous in sparring a high percentage of the time?
what if someone rushes you and you wish to move with the front foot as a pivot or base?
basically I see it an assumption before the fact, which I don’t wish to make. A rear weighted stance allows for quick forward movement, chambered front leg kick, readiness for a front leg sweep. But this comes with disadvantages - what if you want the other side of the coin? what if (sorry overused word! ) you opponent manages to strike your supporting leg? you want to kick with the rear leg etc, etc
many questions - I am a user of the 50-50 stance and would like to hear the other side.
Those that know have no need to say they do. They just smile at all others.
In my experience, those that know are happy to explain. Those who smile enigmatically at all the others generally do so to hide their own ignorance and preserve their egos.
At least those that ask questions have not stopped trying to find the truth.
what if you want the other side of the coin? what if (sorry overused word! ) you opponent manages to strike your supporting leg? you want to kick with the rear leg etc, etc
This is one reason why in WT, the stance in linear; rear foot directly behind front foot, weight on rear leg. The front leg helps protect the rear leg and allows quick movements of the front leg to deflect such a movement.
As far as kicking with the rear leg…there’s a saying “one step, no kick.” Most of you know what I’m talking about. Does it really work? I guess timing plays a big part.
The imbalance you’re referring to is a problem that I have becasue I’m still a beginner student. I’m hoping I will adjust. (see beginning thread)
If someone managed to strike your rear leg, I guess you’d just have to deal with it.
Anerlich no need to tell us about you. The total lack of any Wing Chun substance in any of your posts tells us all we need to know.
Maybe you feel your wing chun has nothing to offer? Other who learn from Williem Cheung at least show loyalty and stand by him. You? You say you dont belive his story about where his kung-fu come from . Ok Then you and Alfred gab on to the Hung Suen wing chun of Garret Gee. Then you say its not same as Wing chun of Garret Gee but you keep the name Hung Suen. So you must make up name and history for empty kung-fu is that it? If you do not belive William Cheung then share where your Kung -fu come from. Come from air?
I see that things are progressing as usual. We have moved from an actual discussion about an aspect of the art and resorted to name calling and posting degrading remarks. In my limited experience this accomplishes nothing.
In an attempt to get back on track I would ask that we return to discussing the stance and the pros and cons of front weighted, equal weighted and rear legged. Any takers???
No, I do not really miss being a Mod, I do miss having the time to post more than I am currently able. Still, it does not seem like I am missing too much .
Anerlich no need to tell us about you. … blah blah blah … Come from air?
:o
I’m a user of the 50/50 stance, as would be most TWC people. Of course in a real encounter both stance and weight distribution are constantly shifting. We’d use 100/0 only as a transition on side and T-steps - and kicking, of course.
In an attempt to get back on track I would ask that we return to discussing the stance and the pros and cons of front weighted, equal weighted and rear legged. Any takers???
Peace,
Dave [/B]
definitely dave (asked a question a couple of posts up)
I’ve only explored equal weighted and have some pros and cons:
Pros-
-Interuptability (very important!!)
-Mobility (similar to above)
-Near equal speed of both kicks (not depending on front leg kick)
-Both legs safe from leg kicks (can move or at least minimise weight on leg to minimise damage)
Cons-
-May have weaker strike (though MUST hit home! and can be cultivated to not be an issue)
-Have to shift weight to kick with front leg (though rear leg will be quicker)
Basically if you train in a live situation (especially with weapons) a weighted stance comes naturally (well to me at least ) I’m happy with my striking power and VERY happy with my mobility and interuptability when I’m equal weighted (sometimes on my heels or uneven when stressed in sparring!)
Wouldn’t do it any other way myself, but would like to hear opinions of weighted stance users
No, I do not really miss being a Mod, I do miss having the time to post more than I am currently able. Still, it does not seem like I am missing too much .
Hope all is well with you
Peace,
Dave [/B]
All is well,like you,I don’t post as much as I used to mainly because I use the times for training instead! (Times is limited!)Also, I have students that are getting seriously good! (good motivation!)
Sihing73
“In an attempt to get back on track I would ask that we return to discussing the stance and the pros and cons of front weighted, equal weighted and rear legged. Any takers???”
I would take you up on your offer but I think it is a no win situation. I think that if you practice the 0/100, 20/80, 50/50 etc. it really depends on whether or not it works for you. I know that there are very effective WC/VT/WTers that can make each type work very well.
horserider
Watch one baseball game and see how many different stances the batters take. They definately are not all the same. Just because both feet are in the batters box doesn’t mean the stance is the same. Do you use the same stance and footwork for the Baat Jam Do, the 61/2 Pole, and empty hand techniques?
Not really a debate per se, each situation will require, or can require a slightly different response. Thus the need for flexibility and the ability to step outside of the box. IMHO it does one no good to complain about someone not following Wing Chun principles if that person is able to defeat you, particularly if they can do so easily. I have run into a number of “Wing Chun” People who can talk the talk but not walk the walk (Myself included) I think that truly great martial artists are capable of adapting and applying the concepts/principles outside of a rigid structure.
Back to the discussion of the stance:
Front weighted can be considered more aggressive. This has the advantage of allowing you to LOAD up and really extends your energy into your opponent. However, it also can cause you to over commit and one big disadvantage is that once you attack you may have trouble stopping or redirecting your energy. Another thing to consider is that a Front Weighted stance can leave you susceptible to sweeps and the like.
Rear Weighted allows you to root and can be very stable. However, usually you end up with more limited mobility to one side. While proponents will argue that keeping the front foot weightless allows for quick shifts, and there are people who can make this work, this requires a good deal of practice to make it work comfortable. Usually a rear weighted stance is less prone to sweeps as the front leg can be lifted easier. In WT, one advantage of having 100% of the weight on the rear leg is that the front leg can be used to kick with very little, if any, tell tale movement of the body.
Equal Weighted provides a happy medium as you are equally balanced and can usually react fairly well to either side. Another factor is that if you take up a triangle stance or Som Kwok Ma you will have one foot slightly in front of the other but still be fairly balanced. This will provide good balance for all four sides and will only minimize facing ability slightly. However, any movement will be indicated as this stance will require a shifting of weight to move. In the rear weighted stance it is possible to move forward without this indication. Although again this requires more practice. Probably the greatest advantage to the equal weighted stance is that it is the closest to a natural body weight. I know, in real life no one is ever 100% 50/50 but it is closest as it is less natural to be Front or Rear weighted.
Along with this comes the idea of weighting on the foot. Some will argue it is better to center the weight on the ball, center or heel. I would propose that each of these also allows for different situations.
Gandolf- are you sure?
What is important your? Stance when you are relaxed or waiting or your stance when you are active and transferring power. If you look at top hitters at the moment of impact as they finish their stride you will not see many many different stances. You will see only a few and look at the best hitters and you see even fewer.
How you stand when relaxed and neither issuing or recieving force is not important at all. How you align your skeleton when you are issuing or recieving energy, that is what is important.
As for what foot your weight is on, that is not very important . All stance have their time and place.As long as you know time and place all weightings work. Although front foot weight has fewer times and place.
There is always someone better ,faster, stronger etc etc. The issue is never how good a fighter you are because someone always better just depends if you fight him or not but he out there. What is most important is learning how to use your natuaral tools in the way they were intended . Then you get most out of whatever skills you pocess. That is what is important. Hunching shoulders, leaning back like slant pile, the need to run or retreat to avoid incoming energy because you have no body to receive force. These are problems and fighting skills will never be optimal until these things corrected.
) you opponent manages to strike your supporting leg? you want to kick with the rear leg etc, etc
.