"Sport fighting"

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
141

[QUOTE=Ray Pina;964243]I don’t know.[/quote]well why not?

But if you really think only men without children perpetrate violent crimes, there’s an issue in understanding here that I just can’t help you get over
you are misunderstanding the point here again…

If my understanding is right you learned your skills from an Asian woman but haven’t been training with anyone since.
a jewish woman and train with myself… that is someone. :stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t knock what you learned, because I don’t know what you studied,
the foundations of bagua and xing yi…

and I don’t knock that you aren’t training with others now.
when the others are ready, they will appear. :smiley:

I would suggest though, that while you have been idly maintaining what you have, a great many others are adding to what they have.
be wary not of the man who practices 10,000 techniques once, but he who practices one technique 10,000 times… i seem to live by this concept.

Also, a trainer or coach will push you MUCH further than you’ll push yourself.
perhaps, but i don’t like anyone to push me around for whatever the reason… i do what i want, not what i am told.

I’m never content with my martial arts or surfing.
hmmmm… this doesn’t seem like a healthy mindset to have… finding contentness in life with where one is and with what one has become should be one of the ultimate goals in life. being here, in the now. i find it illogical to plan for the future because you never know what tommorow will bring or if you’ll even make it out of today alive, so it’s wise to be content with what we have at any given moment.

That’s why I’m now fighting in the cage and living on an island with big waves. This is just how I’m wired. Further. Never backwards and never staying the same.
commendable, only i don’t like the idea of being on a small island… there’s nowhere to run to if the need arises.

We’re all different.
that depends entirely on ones perception…

I don’t judge what anyone does.
yet you take it personally what anyone says about what you may be doing.

But as soon as someone starts posting what I think is faulty logic, as a member of this board and a lover of martial arts, I think its important to post a counter, just for the record so its there for eyes to see.
and counters are more than likely to have counters aswell…

In this most recent case, I think it’s a disaster to sit content thinking the love of your children will save the day while your skills,
LOL… you are really not seeing this are you?

while perhaps showing up in your day to day life, have not been pressure tested in some time.
hmmmm… i strive with no one so there is no reason for someone to strive with me… the last group of people that attempted to physically threaten me found their “leader” knocked out upside the triple burner flashpoint behind the ear after he tried to grab me from behind as i gave them my back and walked away.

If you want to use your weapons you have to maintain them.
my first weapon is my wits, second is my fist. i train both on a daily basis. :slight_smile:

There is a time to put them on the shelf, but hunger and love for your family alone will not bring down a buffalo.
you’re absolutely right… i’ll grab that bull by the throat and choke the living sh!t out of him before i cut off his balls and make a belt pouch out of his scrotum… then i’ll eat him with the family and be well fed all winter. :smiley:

142

[QUOTE=Frost;964217]This might be true but there haven’t been too many documented cases of large scale NHB in china in the last century of so, 1923 and 1928 I think, maybe a few more but I can’t recall them.

Ray is right in that love them or hate them the Gracie’s had the largest impact on martial arts in the last centur.. They brought reality back to the traditional martial arts, they reminded us that real fighting is nasty up close and usually involves some kind of grappling. Not to mention that no member of the family ever backed down from a challenge, even Ronion has had documented no rules matches.

In addition they created 3 new sports, MMA, submission grappling and BJJ all of which are widely popular. Not to mention their impact on popular culture the way the general public view martial arts and fighting in general has changed dramatically due to the impact the Graice’s and the UFC have had[/QUOTE]

again bruce lee beat them to the nontelegraphic punch lol:D

as far as them never backing down that is up for dispute(ie the gene lebell match or the benny the jet match)

143

i think cage fights are a stray offshoot from the days of the gladiators… musing over the whole thing, cage fights are not even remotely comparable to being in a coliseum - an insult to great warriors of reknown everywhere, in every age. :slight_smile:

144

[QUOTE=goju;964420]as far as them never backing down that is up for dispute(ie the gene lebell match or the benny the jet match)[/QUOTE]

they may have had made wild challenges in the magazines that changed all the time ill not dispute that (Ronion is an idiot after all), but by the same token they never turned away a challenger who turned up at one of their schools or seminars, witness all the challenges at Gracie Torrance, hell didn’t one of the smaller cousins accept a fight with a pro fighter once after a grappling seminar he gave, he lost to a guy much bigger than him but he fought.

Pro Japanese fighter Anjoh turned up at Ricksons School with the Japanese media in toe and demanded a fight and got one, although afterwards I bet he wished he had not bothered

You have got to respect that, how many teachers do you know who will take on all challengers?

145

[QUOTE=Frost;964430]You have got to respect that, how many teachers do you know who will take on all challengers?[/QUOTE]why do you have to respect someone with an infantile mindset of making a challenge?? doesn’t the offer of challenge imply mental insecurities?? accepting a challenge is like accepting to have a mental deficiency. :stuck_out_tongue:

146

[QUOTE=uki;964431]why do you have to respect someone with an infantile mindset of making a challenge?? doesn’t the offer of challenge imply mental insecurities?? accepting a challenge is like accepting to have a mental deficiency. :p[/QUOTE]

I repsect someone who has enough believe in what they teach to actually be prepared to show it works.

Do you actually train martial arts, and if so why do you train?

147

[QUOTE=Frost;964432]Do you actually train martial arts, and if so why do you train?[/QUOTE]why would i waste time on a martial arts forum if i did not train?? i train because it is each individuals responsibility to be able to defend oneself from physical aggression if and when the situation arises… the belief that we “need” someone else in order to facilitate this defense mechanism is asinine to say the least - the concept itself should adequately flower on a well nourished mind. some folks are still oblivious to the realization and fundamentual principle that recongizes that the “master” dwells in each of us. :slight_smile:

148

[QUOTE=uki;964433]why would i waste time on a martial arts forum if i did not train?? i train because it is each individuals responsibility to be able to defend oneself from physical aggression if and when the situation arises… the belief that we “need” someone else in order to facilitate this defense mechanism is asinine to say the least - the concept itself should adequately flower on a well nourished mind. some folks are still oblivious to the realization and fundamentual principle that recongizes that the “master” dwells in each of us. :)[/QUOTE]

I don’t know, why waste your time on a martial arts board if you are not going to contribute anything, and how do you know you can defend yourself from physical aggression… How do you know what you are taught will work when it hits the fan? The Gracie’s students know what they are taught will work because they can see their instructors using it in fights and challenges, how do you know?

149

[QUOTE=uki;964418]… the last group of people that attempted to physically threaten me found their “leader” knocked out upside the triple burner flashpoint behind the ear after he tried to grab me from behind as i gave them my back and walked away.[/QUOTE]

You took the pansy way out uki. That was WAY too easy. If you had used MMA you could have risked your own safety and taken more time by getting down on the ground to choke them each out one by one! Then gone home changed your dirty clothes, clean the minor scrapes and abrasions and have a beer.

How do you live with the shame!:o

150

[QUOTE=Frost;964438]I don’t know, why waste your time on a martial arts board if you are not going to contribute anything, and how do you know you can defend yourself from physical aggression… How do you know what you are taught will work when it hits the fan? The Gracie’s students know what they are taught will work because they can see their instructors using it in fights and challenges, how do you know?[/QUOTE]

LOL!! Shakes head…newbies!!!

151

[QUOTE=Scott R. Brown;964439]You took the pansy way out uki. That was WAY too easy. If you had used MMA you could have risked your own safety and taken more time by getting down on the ground to choke them each out one by one! [/quote]how selfish of me…

Then gone home changed your dirty clothes, clean the minor scrapes and abrasions and have a beer.
i think i went back upstairs and had a third rum and coke. :smiley:

How do you live with the shame!
i am shameless. :stuck_out_tongue:

[QUOTE=Frost;964438]how do you know?[/QUOTE]i wish i could explain it so you could understand it, but you have to come to terms with the concept on your own. :slight_smile:

152

[QUOTE=uki;964441]i am shameless. :p[/QUOTE]

LOL!! That you are…there is a lot of freedom in that isn’t there?

153

[QUOTE=Scott R. Brown;964442]LOL!! That you are…there is a lot of freedom in that isn’t there?[/QUOTE]most people have no idea!!

154

the belief that we “need” someone else in order to facilitate this defense mechanism is asinine to say the least - the concept itself should adequately flower on a well nourished mind. some folks are still oblivious to the realization and fundamentual principle that recongizes that the “master” dwells in each of us.

wow just wow. delusional to say the very least. Good luck with that.

And what “said” systema did you say you were in? So I can stay far far away from it.

155

[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;964447]wow just wow. delusional to say the very least. [/quote]delusional only from your perspective perhaps…

Good luck with that.
thanks!! we tigers have an uncanny knack for it.

And what “said” systema did you say you were in?
you can can think of me as a benign virus that affects other systems by forming a symbiotic relationship with it. :slight_smile:

So I can stay far far away from it.
we all fear the unknown at some point in the journey. :stuck_out_tongue:

156

The Gracie Challenge was probably the most traditional thing they ever did.
There is nothing more traditional in TMA than to test your skills via public challenges, it happened all the time.
Judo’s history is ripe with it, so is Karate’s and so is almost every system of Kung fu.
Challenges are how MA test their skill AND promote their system.

157

I believe that martial arts at the turn of the century were more brutal, but as the 20th century dawned and technology became prevalent, you had systems being watered down because the need was no longer what it used to be. Then of course you had this new age hippie movement in which passiveness was what defined the martial arts and in order to be a true martial artist, you had to live in the woods, look like Grizzly Adams, and be at “one” with yourself. I am thankful the Gracies brought to light what martial arts was truly about. Of course, you still have the idiots who do forms and beat up trees and think they are “teh deadly”, but you will always have that.

158

[QUOTE=Iron_Eagle_76;964465]I believe that martial arts at the turn of the century were more brutal, but as the 20th century dawned and technology became prevalent, you had systems being watered down because the need was no longer what it used to be. Then of course you had this new age hippie movement in which passiveness was what defined the martial arts and in order to be a true martial artist, you had to live in the woods, look like Grizzly Adams, and be at “one” with yourself. I am thankful the Gracies brought to light what martial arts was truly about. Of course, you still have the idiots who do forms and beat up trees and think they are “teh deadly”, but you will always have that.[/QUOTE]

as i did not live at the turn of the century, i do not see sport martial arts then as any more difficult than now.

having seen films of sport fights in the ring from teh turn of the century, I would say that there is a huge leap in expected skill these days as compared to then when flying haymakers were the tech du jour.

seriously, this idea that the ancients were better is absurd. We are humans, we grow and develop and become more than what we were with each uninterupted generation.

I don’t savvy much with the idea that old = better.

I’ll take the grown and adapted over the old anyday.

It has been shown countless times how antiquated and useless turn of the century martial arts can be and it is continually shown today that you gotta train to gain.

closed schools doing esoteric ritualized martial arts are cool, but comparing that to todays expected conditions for ma fightings is also absurd. they are apples and wrenches.

Old stuff has good in it. Principles, fundaments, etc. But the training methodology overall is antiquated and ineffective when pressure tested.

that has been demonstratively shown again and again.

weapons, well you can’t really gauge that can you? A projectile weapon is superior period. No matter how many times you want to create a scenario and wedge your tech in their, a gun supersedes all classical weapons.

relevance counts, tradition is good, but relevance and effective training regimens are far more worthwhile to pursue. Update and upgrade or be stagnant. That is how it is. Can’t see it? That’s cool, you can’t see it.

159

What was the world record in the 100 meters in 1909? what was the world record in the deadlift?
What did olympic gynmast do in the first olympics of the 20th century?
Compare that to what is done NOW.

if you care to look at the “average” Joe, that’s fine too.

160

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;964470]as i did not live at the turn of the century, i do not see sport martial arts then as any more difficult than now.

having seen films of sport fights in the ring from teh turn of the century, I would say that there is a huge leap in expected skill these days as compared to then when flying haymakers were the tech du jour.

seriously, this idea that the ancients were better is absurd. We are humans, we grow and develop and become more than what we were with each uninterupted generation.

I don’t savvy much with the idea that old = better.

I’ll take the grown and adapted over the old anyday.

It has been shown countless times how antiquated and useless turn of the century martial arts can be and it is continually shown today that you gotta train to gain.

closed schools doing esoteric ritualized martial arts are cool, but comparing that to todays expected conditions for ma fightings is also absurd. they are apples and wrenches.

Old stuff has good in it. Principles, fundaments, etc. But the training methodology overall is antiquated and ineffective when pressure tested.

that has been demonstratively shown again and again.

weapons, well you can’t really gauge that can you? A projectile weapon is superior period. No matter how many times you want to create a scenario and wedge your tech in their, a gun supersedes all classical weapons.

relevance counts, tradition is good, but relevance and effective training regimens are far more worthwhile to pursue. Update and upgrade or be stagnant. That is how it is. Can’t see it? That’s cool, you can’t see it.[/QUOTE]

Good points, but the problem is that there are still many TMA schools that are stagnant and that is the point I am trying to make. There were more challenge matches and actual fights during that time period. Were the fights sh**itty, some probably were. But there is a difference in fighting and pretending to fight, the latter of which is what many TCMA schools devolved into. I agree that with modern technology, training equipment, and better methods, modern fighters should be much better. Sadly, though, many are not.