i want to start sparring a little with my tkd friend. what should i do when he uses his high kicks? i know i could back away but what else could i do?
my friend also likes to do "tkd combo punches." what should i do to counter that? what about pak sao while moving 45 degrees and getting him from there? any help would be great. :D
when he kicks high, rush in as quick as possible. will be hard if he’s good, but as it goes on you’ll be able to read his body language when he’s about to kick - not just from his feet - it can be a dip of the shoulders, whatever.
anyway, if you have a mat, rush in and push him over, and let him fall on his ass. Then help him up, and continue sparring! You can sweep his other leg; once you’re that close it’s your game, but whatever you do, don’t get into that “using tan sau to block a powerful roundhouse high kick” thing, as that’s hardly the soft way.
Good luck, have fun, but remember it’s a learning thing, not a fight.
My anus is superiorâ„¢
also go n read the footwork thread and absorb the info given by watchman and his digi cam!
Edd
My anus is superiorâ„¢
wingchunwsl,
Exactly what type of kicks does he throw? Roundhouse, side, or front? You could use a different technique for each one.
thanks for the info sharky. super-fist, he usually does combination kicks like round house, turning and doing another round house kick. he does side kicks sometime and once in a while, hook kicks. besides those things, he does punching combos.
<TABLE BORDER=“3” CELLSPACING=“1” CELLPADDING=“1”><TR><TD><form><INPUT TYPE=“button” VALUE=" Art T " onClick=“parent.location=‘http://people.we.mediaone.net/arttsai/home.html’”></TD></TR></table></form><HR Width=“97%”>“You fight like you train.” --Motto, USN Fighter Weapon School (TOPGUN)
walk in
everytime your in your range.. walk in.. that’s it
Rogue would be able to give you a really good perspective on your question, wingchunwsl.
recommendation
Don’t waste good potential Wing Chun training time on the TKD.
Walk in…? LOL Just walk up to the guy?!
break timing, rush in…
in order for someone to complete a combo, their opponent must allow them time to do this. realistically, u may only reallu parry 2-3 techniques before he switches up his game plan. your suggestion of the 45 degree triangle step and rush in is a good idea. the main thing you should keep in mind with each new clash is not to be defensive and wait around. but to rush in (with different techniques, or from different angles, so u don’t become too predictable). if he comes in at you with combos, try to break his timing and counter as soon as you see an opening! dont even think about it, just go!!
In a fight you should never stick to principles; they should stick to you!
words to the wise
It would be unwise to think that all other arts are inferior to your own. It would also be foolish to assume that all TKD guys can be easily beaten in a sparring match.
Walking or rushing in does’nt always work. The good ones won’t give you an indication that they’re kicking you at all, or kick real fast from the leading leg. Some will fake you first, and then kick or punch you. It is only one of many techniques that are within our arsenal that can be used against a kick, so don’t depend on one.
Some TKD guys are really quick so in the worst case scenario prepare to receive the kick somehow. What you use is up to you. I was taught and prefer kwun sau for a roundhouse kick. Feel what’s best for you thru your own experiences.
In theory - everything works! Real applications against a skilled TKD fighter can sometime yield negative results without the proper training. From what I’ve seen on this forum and others, alot of people don’t even sparr or believe in it. IMO the only way to learn about it is from actually doing it. So go spar with your friend and find out for yourself like many of us have.
I have to agree with Mun hung’s comment’s. Each art has developed and evolved for a reason and situation. Your techniques to defend against a TKD opponent should be likewise. Develop techniques which you are comfortable with and strengthen those you are not, then use these tools to react to the situation, with the emphasis on the plural. Each defense is situation. I’ve spared with TKD exponents for a while and note alot are not prepared for our readiness to bridge teh gap and stick to them, while I’ve been surprised at the speed of some tof theuir higher level practionsioners, being able to slow down my ability to bridge. 
I agree with everyone else that the best advice is to get in close fast. If you can do this while maintaining your structure, it should be relatively easy to uproot him. One thing to try which should work when you get in there is a double palm strike. Kick out his support leg if he’s still standing there on one leg looking like an emu with a sore foot.
If he tries his “TKD combo punches”, use sticking hand skills to get through to his centreline. If you haven’t learnt sticking hands yet, concentrate on: a) keeping your elbows in; b) staying relaxed (including shoulders down); and c) maintaining the integrity of your overall structure.
I’d be more worried about his kicks than his punching. Remember that his punching will not be generated from the centre like yours, since his fist is horizontal at the point of impact (try to punch so that your knuckles end up horizontal with your elbow facing downwards and close to the centreline - can’t be done!)
Because his punch comes from the side (driven from the shoulder), if you’re in close, he won’t be able to put much force in his punch compared to you if you’re punching from the centre (Imagine trying to budge a really heavy object. To get more bodyweight behind it, would you have your elbows out to the sides like a chook or held in close to your chest?).
If your upper body is relaxed and your arms are hogging the centreline, even if he gets some punches in, chances are they won’t hit any vital points and your relaxed upper body will absorb the force anyway. When you feel any force, allow it to be transferred to your stance and be dissipated by pivotting.
Another tactic is to aim to get to one side of him (triangle stepping), and while controlling his elbow, punch or palm strike to his head, neck or ribs, perhaps while sweeping his leg at the same time.
Max
To know the unseen, you must first learn to see.
Response to high kicks.
There are a couple things one might do against high kicks. The most important thing is to get within the arc of the kick.
‘Kuen sao’ can be particulary effective against a high kick, especially in conjunction with a ‘seet ma’ followed by a ‘fung gurk’ to the opponent’s standing leg. follow through with chain punching or whatever for good measure to make sure he hits the ground.
another response to a powerful high kick could be double ‘jum sao.’
all of this is conjecture, and will of course depend on the situation. this is also by no means a definitive list of all responses, just some suggestions.
–
chi kwai
thanks
thanks guys. one last thing, i was taught to never use kwan sao to counter a kick. do you guys ever use it against something like that? if so, do you block it between the tan sao and the low bong sao?
kwun sau
Yes I have used kwun sau against kicks. Kwun Sau mean so to roll, so when faced with energy use the kwun sau to roll it and change the line.
Against kicks, I have found that kwun sau works best when stepping into the kick before it builds up to maximum power. The contact point will vary depending upon the kick, the height, and the angle, but suffice it to say, project your center through the kwun sau and toss the kicker or jam him. One important point with kwun sau is not to stand passivle waiting for the kick. The act of transitioning your bridges to kwun sau (tan and bong) is what rolls the energy aside. If you stand passively waiting for the kick, then there is no changing of the bridges upon contact and the full force will affect your structure.
regards,
Dzu
kwun sau vs roundhouse kick
Dzu - that was a fine explanation for the kwun sau vs the roundhouse kick. Especially regarding “rolling the energy” and “jamming”. I’d like to throw some pennies at this also.
wingchunwsl - Is there a particular reason why you would’nt use a kwun/kwan sau to counter a roundhouse kick? Were you given a good reason not to use it? Just curious.
If applied properly, it can be a kickers worst nightmare when it comes to a roundhouse kick. It is also a real test of how good your entire structure is while in motion.
Ideally, the best contact points are your elbows (tan or bong) to any part of the kickers leg, but any part of the arm should still stop the kick. Rolling the bong sau elbow down into the kickers shin (like a pick) is a personal favorite for many in our class. The tan sau when used with proper structure (the elbow and shoulder just have to be in line with the incoming force) puts a painful stop to anything approaching that gate.
IMO - the kwun sau works great. But just like anything else - it’s all in the timing, execution, and practice, practice, practice!
mun hung
i heard from this forum that you could use kwan sao so i asked my sifu one morning. i asked him if i could use kwan sao to counter higher kicks and he said, “never.” i also asked him if i could use a pak sao to slap the kick away and he said no for that too.
wingchunwsl
Did your Sifu say why he felt Kwun Sau should never be used?
regards,
Dzu