can gain insight into the development of the primary elements of PM by practicing Beng-bu, just as you can gain some insight into the development of Northern CMA by practicing Taizu
Reply]
Actually, this is a very good point. This is one reson why I look towards the really old forms. It’s sort of like starting with the foundations first.
It is also good to look at forms that imediatley descended from Tai Tzu as well, especially if you are digging into the core esscence of an art.
oh please! Buy another video RD…
Do you have anything of intrest to offer?
Xiao Hong Quan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao1SpJVK_5g
Can anybody tell me how old this form is ?
Kind Regards,
Xian
I can’t watch YouTube as its blocked in China,
But I am assuming it is Shaolin Xiao Hong Quan?
There is some argument as to how old this form is;
By the Oral Tradition here in Shaolin, masters say it was created 1000 years ago in the song dynasty, during a meeting of 18 great masters of 18 schools. But there are many versions of this story, and the style created varies between Taizu Quan, Pao Quan and Hong Quan, and maybe all of them. Some say even Xiao Hong Quan predates this time and it was one of the 18 styles used to refine the new forms.
Certainly the name may be 1000 years old, but as to the exact form its anyones guess. There are some versions that split from shaolin 200 years ago, and the form remains unchanged so we can say at least that. My best guess is its remained the same from about the year 1600…but thats conjecture, I don’t think anyone is sure. I hope its 1000 years old, that would be cool.
There is a written poem describing the names of the moves in this form, does anyone know how old the oldest written version of this is?
Certainly its one of shaolins ultimate forms and generally considered the most important;
Xiao Hong Quan, Xiao Tong Bei Quan, Xiao Pao Quan, Da hong Quan, Luohan Quan.
[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1021005]I can’t watch YouTube as its blocked in China,
But I am assuming it is Shaolin Xiao Hong Quan?
There is some argument as to how old this form is;
By the Oral Tradition here in Shaolin, masters say it was created 1000 years ago in the song dynasty, during a meeting of 18 great masters of 18 schools. But there are many versions of this story, and the style created varies between Taizu Quan, Pao Quan and Hong Quan, and maybe all of them. Some say even Xiao Hong Quan predates this time and it was one of the 18 styles used to refine the new forms.
Certainly the name may be 1000 years old, but as to the exact form its anyones guess. There are some versions that split from shaolin 200 years ago, and the form remains unchanged so we can say at least that. My best guess is its remained the same from about the year 1600…but thats conjecture, I don’t think anyone is sure. I hope its 1000 years old, that would be cool.
There is a written poem describing the names of the moves in this form, does anyone know how old the oldest written version of this is?
Certainly its one of shaolins ultimate forms and generally considered the most important;
Xiao Hong Quan, Xiao Tong Bei Quan, Xiao Pao Quan, Da hong Quan, Luohan Quan.[/QUOTE]
Yes its Shaolin Xiao Hong Quan performed by Shi Guo Song. Okay this are some informations thank you for that 
And what is about Lao Hong Quan ? When you talking about Xiao Hong Quan you aren’t referring to Lao Hong Quan dont you ?
Its a pity that you cant see youtube. I have uploaded a version of Luhan Quan from an old kung fu documentary, where a monk performes it and it looks totally different than the version Shi De Yang does.
Kind regards,
Xian
I’m talking about xiao hong quan, Lao hong quan is a whole other issue… I am only familiar with one form of lao hong quan, but i think there are 3 or 4. I’m pretty sure Sal (another forum member) is familiar with them.
In all my years training Shaolin I have encountered about 30 different Luohan Quans closely related to Song Shan.
We did a whole thread on it a while ago.
There are 2 major forms, quite different in appearence, and there are rumored to be 18 forms in the complete system.
Deyang has a version of both major forms. The one in his DVDs is a short version (38 moves) of ‘cross hands luohan’ (starts with hands crossing). My version of this form has over 100 moves, and I think even longer versions are known.
There is also an entire sect of gong fu called Luohan men, that has many different versions. Plus many other styles will have a form called luohan quan. Usually a Tang Lang school will have a form called luohan quan, southern schools do also… its a very popular name. Even some Wudang schools have a luohan quan!
[QUOTE=Xian;1020812]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ao1SpJVK_5g
Can anybody tell me how old this form is ?
Kind Regards,
Xian[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Xian;1021061]Its a pity that you cant see youtube. I have uploaded a version of Luhan Quan from an old kung fu documentary, where a monk performes it and it looks totally different than the version Shi De Yang does.[/QUOTE]
Actually that is the video you linked to in the previous post, not Xiaohongquan by Shi Guosong.
Luohanquan is not one form, but a whole system. A number of different systems use the name as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ID-sqwjCOU&feature=related
Sorry. This is the Xiao Hong Quan from Shi Guo Song.
I answer on the rest later.
Kind regards,
Xian
[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1021005]I can’t watch YouTube as its blocked in China,
But I am assuming it is Shaolin Xiao Hong Quan?
There is some argument as to how old this form is;
By the Oral Tradition here in Shaolin, masters say it was created 1000 years ago in the song dynasty, during a meeting of 18 great masters of 18 schools. But there are many versions of this story, and the style created varies between Taizu Quan, Pao Quan and Hong Quan, and maybe all of them. Some say even Xiao Hong Quan predates this time and it was one of the 18 styles used to refine the new forms.
Certainly the name may be 1000 years old, but as to the exact form its anyones guess. There are some versions that split from shaolin 200 years ago, and the form remains unchanged so we can say at least that. My best guess is its remained the same from about the year 1600…but thats conjecture, I don’t think anyone is sure. I hope its 1000 years old, that would be cool.
There is a written poem describing the names of the moves in this form, does anyone know how old the oldest written version of this is?
Certainly its one of shaolins ultimate forms and generally considered the most important;
Xiao Hong Quan, Xiao Tong Bei Quan, Xiao Pao Quan, Da hong Quan, Luohan Quan.[/QUOTE]
I’m going to PM you a proxy IP addy that you should be able to use in China.
Lao Hong Quan, which one?
There is the series of 3 sets that are practicing in the Denfeng village area that are called Lao Hong Quan, it’s a mixture of Shaolin Rou Quan and Hong quan, it was said that Zhou Kuangyin brought some Hong Quan (from Henan or Shanxi) routines that he had developed and the monks showed him Rou Quan and the Lao Hong Quan sets are the result of this merger.
THEN, there is the old original longer version of Xiao Hong Quan, which is called Lao Hong Quan on the different Shaolin DVDs that are out there.
Ren, that Luohan video he posted is the one of the guy that you were looking all over for to learn his Luohan Quan from.
I have watched that Lohan, Luohan video alot since I saw it a year ago by accident.
Its a pritty amazing form, this guy has a good condition it seems also.
I have looked at that Lohan topic of RenDaHai with much intrest. I dont know yet if he found this cool Arhat guy.
Peace Eugene
[QUOTE=Sal Canzonieri;1026018]Lao Hong Quan, which one?
There is the series of 3 sets that are practicing in the Denfeng village area that are called Lao Hong Quan, it’s a mixture of Shaolin Rou Quan and Hong quan, it was said that Zhou Kuangyin brought some Hong Quan (from Henan or Shanxi) routines that he had developed and the monks showed him Rou Quan and the Lao Hong Quan sets are the result of this merger.
THEN, there is the old original longer version of Xiao Hong Quan, which is called Lao Hong Quan on the different Shaolin DVDs that are out there.[/QUOTE]
Sorry for answering so late.
I know only one version of Lao Hong Quan. I think it was a version from your channel.
@the Luohan Form.
Ive tried to find the form on the net, but I wasn’t able, to see it anywhere again. For me its interesting that I think he moves very different as for example seen in Da Hong Quan Forms or other Forms of Shaolin.
Kind Regards,
Xian
Ah and also the Luohan Form from this impressing monk is from the Documentary "This is Kung Fu " I took it from there and also a video of the Wutai Shan on my channel.
If you dont know it may help.
http://www.lovehkfilm.com/reviews/this_is_kung_fu.htm
Its from 1983, so around 27 years ago. I think the monk must been around 40 or 50 on the vid. So in the best way I hope he is around 60 today, If he is still alive.
Kind regards,
Xian
http://www.kungfulibrary.com/shaolin-hong-quan.htm
Hey all, does anyone know this book ?
It is worth buying ?
Thanks,
Xian
I have the book.
Its only so so. I must stress that although this is may be a lineage related to shaolin, this form is NOT shaolins Xiao hong or da hong or lao hong quan. The technique may be distantly related but it is not the hong quan your thinking of.
If you have a good grasp of the northern styles you may be able to get something from this book, otherwise I don’t think its really worth it.
[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1038765]I have the book.
Its only so so. I must stress that although this is may be a lineage related to shaolin, this form is NOT shaolins Xiao hong or da hong or lao hong quan. The technique may be distantly related but it is not the hong quan your thinking of.
If you have a good grasp of the northern styles you may be able to get something from this book, otherwise I don’t think its really worth it.[/QUOTE]
Okay thank you. No I am a beginner in Northern Styles. I am more used to Siu Lam Weng Chun or Yip Man Wing Chun.
Kind Regards,
Xian
ttt
I just posted Shaolin Trips: Flashback, which discusses my relationship with xiaohong.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xub2tLJYzRY&feature=channel_video_title
Another Nice version of the Xiao Hong Quan I think.
Kind regards,
Xian