Luohan Quan

Luohan Quan,

Everyones favourite Shaolin sub style.

Here is a video, please watch it;

http://www.56.com/u65/v_MjY0Njg4NzA.html

Who is this man??

Can anyone give me a name or ANY information regarding him?

This is from an 80s Documentary called ‘this is kung fu’. It was this exact performance that inspired me to learn Shaolin Kung Fu in the first place… However I have now lived in China in Henan for nearly 4 years and none of the Shaolin masters I have encountered know who this guy is. If he was from Shaolin, many of my past teachers would know who he is, after all his level is high.

So this must be Luohan quan from another place… Everyone I have asked Knows the video, they have all seen it before, but no one knows the man. Some people have suggested that it is Luohan from Wu Tai Mountain. I realise the voiceover is in Cantonese, never the less this style is certainly from northern china.

Can anyone help me? Does anyone know where this quan is from, who this guy is or anything at all about green monk robes?:slight_smile:

hi

i was going to say look for him somewhere but i found a video clip of that movie on youtube
theres a small description of a style, then it has modern wushu performers perform. have you thought maybe that guy was a modern wushu performer wearing a monk robe?

if you have the chance to meet famous shaolin masters, why not just learn luohanquan from them, why this guy?

Hey There BaWang,

All valid points

Yes a lot of the video was modern wushu, but I have an intimate knowledge of modern wushu and no this is not it. The guy probably isn’t a monk and he may well have created the form for performance, but he certainly didn’t pull the moves out of thin air, and I want to know where they came from.

I have spent years searching for the best Luohan Quan of Shaolin, and I have found it. I’m studying still. Never the less it is never enough, I would still really like to know who this guy and where his luohan quan is from.

hi rendahai
most of the techniques he did in that video are in shaolin luohanquan
the pose that he did, luohan listening to sutra and luohan sleeping, they are signature move of shaolin luohanquan

Greetings,

Try checking out the Omei, Wudang and Moslem communities.

This is Ma ZhenWu, a Moslem ( I think he is no longer with us) doing Lohan basics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjHbaV5IHkU&feature=PlayList&p=19E3AA584A75278C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=10

mickey

[QUOTE=mickey;959925]Greetings,

Try checking out the Omei, Wudang and Moslem communities.

This is Ma ZhenWu, a Moslem ( I think he is no longer with us) doing Lohan basics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjHbaV5IHkU&feature=PlayList&p=19E3AA584A75278C&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=10

mickey[/QUOTE]

Thanks,

I’m in China and I can’t watch YouTube (its not inside the great firewall of china) But I’ll see if I can put the name in chinese into a chinese video site.

[QUOTE=bawang;959904]hi rendahai
most of the techniques he did in that video are in shaolin luohanquan
the pose that he did, luohan listening to sutra and luohan sleeping, they are signature move of shaolin luohanquan[/QUOTE]

Yes they are. I have seen at least 30 different Luohan Quan’s in Shaolin and all of these stances appear somewhere, however there is a certain style to this luohan quan that is not familiar… I know he didn’t just make up this form from the standard luohan sets that exist in shaolin today, his follows a different character. I think he must have an extended style of Luohan quan and I want to find him and learn it. Luohan quan has the most interesting character of shaolin sets… I’m rather obsessed by it.

Greetings,

The vibe I get from watching that guy is that he is doing Omei (Ermei) Shaolin. In other words, check out Sichuan province martial arts. The temples in China were not as isolated and distinct as some people think. There was much “cross pollination” for the sole purpose of keeping certain traditions alive in case something happens. This is why I suggest that you check out other places where Luohan Chuan can be found. You should not be shocked to find Shaolin forms in the areas that I suggested.

mickey

@mickey

Thanks, good advice.

Certainly there is a lot of cross pollution. Luohan quan especially. Even Daoist alcoves sometimes practice a luohan quan (a distinctly buddhist fist).

I am convinced this luohan quan is not from shaolin, if it was i would have seen it by now.

E’mei shan in my experiance tends to be less exaggerated in its stances, more southern in flavour. I’m leaning towards Wutai Shan. With 100’s of buddhist temples and a remote location (many people in trouble would flee to wutai to become monks, it offered sanctuary to bandits, killers, deserters, losing warlords etc and as a result has tons of martial arts) it should have some luohan fist. But i can’t find out much about the many many wutai styles.

I have seen that guy in a few Shaolin documentaries on VCD format discs.

Haven’t seen his name mentioned in them.

I have seen a clip of him doing another Shaolin set as well.

This doesn’t appear to be a Shaolin set though, looks like the salute he did was not Shaolin.

Hmm, I checked through my archives. “This is Kung Fu” was originally called something else in China, it was a documentary about the Emei (Omei) KF and wushu scene. It was mostly about modern Wushu development. My copy is not called “This is Kung Fu” it is called “Emei Wushu”.

@ Sal

hmm, That is interesting…

I think they may have used and reused the footage a lot. In the one i have they go to e’mei shan for a bit and show some monkey boxing, but they also go to wutai, song shan, wudang, they go to the south and show nan quan, then they have a large section on jet li and show him doing fan zi quan. It is mainly about the different styles of modern wushu in china but it does contain a few traditional forms as well. If your into modern forms this video has the best performances on it. I actually first got this dvd in a compilation of old jet li movies, since he features heavily in the documentary.

But if they used it in an e’mei documentary as well then there is a chance it is emei luohan, but all the videos i have of e’mei kung fu are pretty ugly close quarters short range sort of forms.

I would love to see this guy doing some other shaolin sets. This luohan quan really has the luohan feeling, I HAVE to find this guys name!!

[QUOTE=RenDaHai;959956]@ Sal

hmm, That is interesting…

I think they may have used and reused the footage a lot. In the one i have they go to e’mei shan for a bit and show some monkey boxing, but they also go to wutai, song shan, wudang, they go to the south and show nan quan, then they have a large section on jet li and show him doing fan zi quan. It is mainly about the different styles of modern wushu in china but it does contain a few traditional forms as well. If your into modern forms this video has the best performances on it. I actually first got this dvd in a compilation of old jet li movies, since he features heavily in the documentary.

But if they used it in an e’mei documentary as well then there is a chance it is emei luohan, but all the videos i have of e’mei kung fu are pretty ugly close quarters short range sort of forms.

I would love to see this guy doing some other shaolin sets. This luohan quan really has the luohan feeling, I HAVE to find this guys name!![/QUOTE]

yeah, I think you are right, in the Emei doc, they do not have all those extra scenes from the other places. So, they must have used just the Emei parts.

I think what I have also seen him do was some Hong quan sets? Not sure.
If I find the other clip, I will post it on Youtube (but you can’t get that in China?).

He might be just an actor all along though, if the clips are from another film originally. The other clip I have seen looks like it came from the same source.


I looked through my archives and I found I have a copy of that film in Mandarin with English subtiles. That clip was indeed filmed at Shaolin itself, so it is not Emei. And, it says that the form he is doing is an 18 Luohan Shou set, 18 Luohan Hands, not Luohan Quan.
Still, it is not one that I have ever seen. It looks like it is just a selection of random movements from Luohan style, which it might have been made just for the film to give an idea of Luohan Quan.
But, it says the film is from 1994, not 1980s, he kinda looks about 50 years old in that clip, so today he is close to 70 years old, yes?
Also, it does not give his name at all.

I looked through as many Shaolin clips as I could so far, but I haven’t found him in any of them yet.
Sorry I couldn’t have been of more help, if I ever come across him in anything, I will let you know here in this thread.

ha, ha, this is stupid, but most people’s highlight of that film when we were much younger is the girl doing the snake or dragon style in the cave with the green body stocking on. Every time she turns around you can see her shiny white behind, looks nice and round and kinda sexy. hah ha.

There are so many variants of Lohuanquan that one will have to identify the region practiced, the origin, location (village, town), the master’s name and who was his teacher!

I learnt a Lohanquan form, and 2 man sequence taught by teacher Yucheng Huang (died some years ago) who learnt it in Guangdong (big province, I know) and he supposedly learnt it at Shaolin!

[QUOTE=mawali;959975]There are so many variants of Lohuanquan that one will have to identify the region practiced, the origin, location (village, town), the master’s name and who was his teacher!

I learnt a Lohanquan form, and 2 man sequence taught by teacher Yucheng Huang (died some years ago) who learnt it in Guangdong (big province, I know) and he supposedly learnt it at Shaolin![/QUOTE]

The reason that there is so many different Luohan Quan is because of a few reason, which I will explain:

1 - the name “Luohan Quan” is what it became known as but it is not the original name of the style. it was originally called “Defending and Attacking, Advancing and Retreating Boxing”, which was composed of all the material that was developed in the 1400s from Monk Jue Yuan’s collaboration and further refining of old Shaolin Quan with the Hong Quan and staff methods from Li Sou and the internal ground fighting methods of Bai Yue Feng. They developed a large number of sets.

2 Over time these sets were practiced in the area, they eventually separated into Shaolin Hong Quan system, 5 Fists system (the animal sets) and what became later known as the Luohan System (composed of various 28 Luohan Hands sets and a few Luohan Quan sets. One of which became known as the Da Luohan Quan, a huge set containing all the postures and movements in one set. To help prepare for this huge set, they created many training sets, which became known as Xiao Luohan, Lao Luohan, Duan Da Luohan, and more.
This material is practiced all over Denfeng, Luoyang, Kaifeng, and other parts of Henan.

3 - the Shrine areas of shaolin was were the anti-Qing rebels stationed themselves and they practiced all these sets, plus their local village long fist and mixed it all together, and this stuf, and this stuff spread to other areas, especially Shandong province.

4 - the students of Bai Yu feng and Jue Yuan, such as Yi Quan, and others eventually fled to southern China, where their students became the founders of the Choy Gar style. Eventually this developed into Choy Li Fut style. These southern styles have the most closed connection to Northern Shaolin Five Fists (which they developed the Five Animals sets from). Eventually this material filtered into the other southern Shaolin based styles (Hung Gar, and so on).

So, all these area practice set that they call Luohan Quan, not to mention people that went to Wudang and Emei, and they all do some kind of Luohan Quan material. Some sets are preserved from ancient times accurately, some are parts of the original Luohan material mixed with local martial arts.
Now, there are tons of Luohan Quan sets from all over, and it is just a way of saying “Shaolin Quan”.

Greetings,

Ah, so it is Omei. Told ya!!

The documentary “This is Kung Fu” appears to be a compilation of Wushu clips that were shown on Chinese televison from time to time, like a snippet between major programs. What has been offered on video was not the one shown in NYC Chinatown at the Rosemary Theater.

mickey

[QUOTE=Sal Canzonieri;959971]


I looked through my archives and I found I have a copy of that film in Mandarin with English subtiles. That clip was indeed filmed at Shaolin itself, so it is not Emei. And, it says that the form he is doing is an 18 Luohan Shou set, 18 Luohan Hands, not Luohan Quan.
Still, it is not one that I have ever seen. It looks like it is just a selection of random movements from Luohan style, which it might have been made just for the film to give an idea of Luohan Quan.
But, it says the film is from 1994, not 1980s, he kinda looks about 50 years old in that clip, so today he is close to 70 years old, yes?
Also, it does not give his name at all.

I looked through as many Shaolin clips as I could so far, but I haven’t found him in any of them yet.
Sorry I couldn’t have been of more help, if I ever come across him in anything, I will let you know here in this thread.[/QUOTE]

Cool, thanks very much for checking! I think there may be different versions of this documentary. Most of the footage of Jet Li for example is early 80’s so although some versions of the Docu may have come out in 1994 they clearly used archived footage, which means dating the video is very hard. In the video it is referred to as 18 luohan quan, not as luohan 18 hands. This is another variant style. (there are 18 luohans, each with different characteristics, typically this kung fu would have 9 or 18 sets. 18 luohan fist is the long name of luohan quan, luohan shi ba shou or 18 hands is a different substyle from shaolin, incidentally no one knows the original 18 hands). He may have compiled the form for the movie, but one would only have to look at the way he walked a circle in the form (not a shaolin move), or the expression on his face and his impeccable timing to see he is a high level expert.

I don’t recognise the temple in the background, and i am rather familiar with dengfengs various temples. If it were filmed near shaolin I think they would simply have used a famous shaolin master of the time, and filmed shaolins luohan quan. I think this is not filmed in the 90s style,even for china. I think this clip will be an 80’s clip. I also estimate the master to be around 70 now.

I can’t imagine it is ermei, it doesn’t fit. There is a style of Luohan quan practiced in kaifeng which is a little close, but not the same. But If this guy was from this area my teacher would certainly know him. Thousands of famous masters have visited shaolin over the centuries, anyone could have taken this style home with him to any part of china at any time. Its tough to find.

Thanks again for your input, everyone

@ sal,

Yeah, I certainly remember the girl doing snake style in the cave…( snake in the cave, almost an inuendo)… Wushu hottie. She might as well have been naked.

Incidently I always thought of this as just a modern set, has anyone seen an extended style which only uses snake movements?

I’d distinguish Luohan from Shaolin

There’s a consistency within Shaolin Luohan forms that is unique. They almost always emphasis some movements involving bowing the hands or a similar ‘luohan’ like gesture. For this reason, I wouldn’t go as far as to say ‘it is just a way of saying “Shaolin Quan”.’ It’s a specific subset of Shaolinquan. However, I understand Sal’s intention behind this comment and agree with it in general principle.

There’s an interesting Luohan DVD in our Grandmasters series (which is mostly Emei-based masters):
Grandmaster Peng Gaoji: Arhat Fist
luohanquan
In the final years of the Qing Dynasty, Yang Zhaoyuan of Leshan Mountain followed his master Shi Zhipu to Songshan Shaolin Temple in Henan Province to study martial arts. Yang mastered the Shaolin method and returned to Leshan to teach Arhat Fist in the Neijiang district. An Arhat, or luohan in Chinese, is an enlightened being of Buddhist mythology often imbued with magical powers.

I also did a series outlining the entire Songshan Shaolin Xiao Luohan form by Shi Guolin.
Xiao Luohan: The Complete Shaolin Form
Part 1 2001 July/August
Part 2 2001 September/October
Part 3 2001 November/December
Part 4 2002 January/February Shaolin Special

Here are the lyrics from that article series.

  1. yue bei shi prepare
  2. chi shi beginning posture
  3. shuang guan tie men double shutting iron doors
  4. yao zi fan shen sparrow hawk turns its body
  5. shuang quan guan er double fists through the ear
  6. xie bu che zhang rest step, chopping palm
  7. gong bu shuang liao shou bow step, double upwards hand
  8. ma bu shuang zai quan horse step, double planting fist
  9. gong bu zuo chung quan bow step, left thrusting fist
  10. gong bu you chung quan bow step, right thrusting fist
  11. tui bu zuo chung quan backwards step, left thrusting fist.
  12. qi zing xiao jia seven star small frame
  13. jin ji du li gold rooster stands on one leg.
  14. er qi jiao two rising legs
  15. sun tong bei smooth through the back
  16. fu jian chung quan protect the shoulder, thrusting fist.
  17. gong bu zuo chung quan bow step, left thrusting fist
  18. gong bu you chung quan bow step, right thrusting fist
  19. xie bu che zhang rest step, chopping palm
  20. fan bei quan reverse back fist
    21 gong bu chung quan bow step, thrusting fist
  21. jin ji du li gold rooster stands on one leg.
  22. er qi jiao two rising legs
  23. ti shi quan xin pao lift knee, fist heart cannon
  24. fu er shuang chung quan protect the ear, double thrusting fist
  25. tao ding chung quan above the head, thrusting fist
  26. gong bu zuo chung quan bow step, left thrusting fist
  27. gong bu you chung quan bow step, right thrusting fist
  28. tui bu chung quan backwards step, thrusting fist.
  29. qi zing xiao jia seven star small frame
  30. lao hu da zhang zui old tiger opens its mouth wide
  31. zuo dun tui left snap kick
  32. gong bu tui zhang bow step pushing palms
  33. mong hu chu dong fearless tiger comes out from the cave
  34. tao ding che zhang above the head, cutting palm
  35. long xing bu dragon form step
  36. gong bu chung quan bow step, thrusting fist
  37. ba wang ju ding conquering king lifts the urn
  38. lien huan zhao continuous claw
  39. hui shen shuang an zhang turn body, double pressing palms
  40. gong bu shuang tui zhang bow step, double pushing palms
  41. hu jian ben shou defend the shoulder, shoving palm
  42. shen feng jiao tornado kick
  43. tong zi bai fo youth bows to Buddha
  44. zuo pi tui left axe kick
  45. luo han suai jiao arhat sleeping
  46. ti shi shuang an zhang lift knee, double pressing palm
  47. gong bu shuang tui zhang bow step, double pushing palms
  48. shuang ben shou double pushing palm
    50: pu bu zuo che zhang crouching step, left cutting palm
    51: pu bu you che zhang crouching step, right cutting palm
  49. xie bu tui zhang resting step, push palm
  50. jin ji du li gold rooster stands on one leg.
  51. er qi jiao two rising legs
  52. gu shu pan gen ancient tree gnarls its roots
  53. mong hu chu dong fearless tiger comes out from the cave
  54. xie bu shuang zai quan resting step, double planting fist.
  55. ying xiong zuo shan hero sits on the mountain
  56. fan bei quan reverse back fist
  57. san bu gai quan forward step, cover fist
  58. mong hu chu dong fearless tiger comes out from the cave
  59. duan bu zai quan squatting step, planting fist
  60. gong bu chung quan bow step, thrusting fist
  61. gui bu zhuang zhao kneeling step, hitting elbow
  62. xie bu chung quan resting step, thrusting fist
  63. gong bu che zhang bow step, cutting palm
  64. ju huo xiao tian raise the torch to burn the sky
  65. ma bu xia zai quan horse step, downward planting fist
  66. tao ding san chung quan above the head, three thrusting fists
  67. ma bu do jian horse step, shaking shoulder
  68. ma bu zuo pan zhuo horse step, left elbow
  69. ma bu you pan zhuo horse step, right elbow
  70. zhuan shen guo quan turn around, hooking fist
  71. gong bu chung quan bow step, thrusting fist
  72. mong hu chu dong fearless tiger comes out from the cave
  73. gong bu dao quan bow step, pestle fist
  74. tian wang tao ta heavenly king lifts the pagoda
  75. da peng zhan zi roc spreads its wings
  76. ji zhang pu bu clap, crouching step
  77. gong bu liao shou bow step, upwards hand
  78. ho xiao tui backwards sweeping leg
  79. gong bu san tui zhang bow step, three pushing palms
  80. shen feng jiao tornado kick
  81. ying xiong zuo shan hero sits on the mountain
  82. sao shi ending pose

Luohan

Hi Sal
How many old Shaolin traditions have you run across that use “Shaolin Luohan Men” as a discriptor?

I understand that Sun Yu Fung’s Lohan Men and Miao Xing’s Luohan are not the same. What is your understanding of the term “Luohan Men”?
r.