Technicality in relation to your ability to peform under pressure. In a system that stresses technical superiority over other means of attack, how confidently can you really put these things into practice?.. Is the training enough or do we need to test against 100% resisting opponents? Is the ability to perfom technically correct in the moment the most important thing. (what a waste of time if you practice for 10 years and get nailed in a street encounter and KNOW that with hard training you can/ could have done betetr)
Can the training methology of practicing technically at first, so fighting correctly (wing chun system) comes together later..but sooner. How much training is required to be able to perform what is "wing chun’ in that moment when it counts. (10 years??..so long, worth it?..what about now?)
Ive come to the conclusion that 100% resisting fighting is necessary very frequently to improve…in the use of being able to USE wing chun. (very different from fighting..
A difficult task is maintaining the stability of the mind to tell the body to act as it should (to do WC). Does the ability to perform at that critical moment depend on having IT turned on all the time??..i guess it does, but do I need to become so intrenched in the art to have this ability… Is this why so few can make it work??
Wc can be great because it comthing to keep..as grow older it blossoms. But if need somthing now, another art can be very tempting to train in (somting that reaches it peak after a few years like kick boxing) Although there is the conflicting motives. cant i have both?..ahh, the temptations of this world.
Wing Chun is an art that deserve at least the faith and necessary learning time to become effective against those so feared “100% f… resisting opponents” so dear to the mma guys!
I, myself at almost 50, used it just today against a 300% resisting and attacking patient (Without getting offensive of course!)…and it worked fine!..The guy tried to punch, kick, eyegouge and bite in a single attack and my “untested against 100% f… resisting opponent Wing Chun” protected me and even allowed me to pin him safely with a simple armlock any moron could perform!..If it would have been a “normal” guy on the street,I could have punched him to death!
IT WORKS!
(For those who don’t know, I work in a psychiatric hospital where 100% resisting is nothing!)
I think he has valid concerns here. Why waste your time in any art that cannot deliver when you need it? Getting attacked on the “street” is not going to be the same as in class. There is a significant loss of fine motor ability under stressful or fearful situations, and if your art relies on precision to use, a lot of that is going to go out the window. I think that staying calm and relaxed is integral to using wing chun. That is a hard thing to train though, and how can you be sure it will work unless you actually do get in a situation. I for one will be upset if all my time and work put into a MA ends up being me flopping around flailing my arms like a sissy if something goes down. I want to be able to use what I learn.
BTW old jong, my girlfriend works in an emergency psychiatric clinic, so I know what you are talking about. I’ve heard some stories!
hmmm
I am just thinking that to be a “regular” fighter you should
do alot of fighting against many different people.
But to be able to really use Wing Chun in a way that goes
with all the principles I think that having a senior student
or teacher spar with you is much more important. They are
able to put you right at your limit and still be able to
constantly give you corrections.
Some one resisting 100% ===> you loose right away
or
Some one resisting 100% ===> you win right away
or
A much better wing chun person working at a level that
presses you to go to your limit and beyond but still
within the Wing Chun concept and with constant corrections??
I would go for the last scenario. You will need someone to
keep you from aquiring bad habits. Someone that can feed
you the input that will make you develop real Wing Chun
skill.
I wouldn’t give up the 100% resisting fighting either
but I think that it can be both good and bad. And with
bad I mean that you might develop bad habits and not
get enough feedback.
Just some thoughts
Joakim
Ok thanks for the replies. Old Jong i hear what you are saying, but dont you think the MMA guys may have a point? (atleast in the idea that if you wan to be able look after your self NOW) it could be a good idea to train in this type of environment?
The reason i write this is because last night i got into some friendly sparing match with a friend. And although he does have MA background…he stood his ground alot beter than i anticipated (and also the fact he is 20kg heaver than me made it slightly in his favour) …but anyway; What i noticed is that when not expecting it, all the things i do in class work,( I know WC works!) but the real situation is very different to a controlled environment like a calss room …this seems to be the real testing ground - the fight.
In the heat of the moment the only thing that you can do is react, and there’s no time to put ur stance on…by the time you think think this..WACK!! your hit.
Im in no way saying i feel let down by WC, but it’s just that conflicting ideas of "relax, stay centred, awarness..etc etc… They greatly conflict with the fighting instinct.
I think that staying calm and relaxed is integral to using wing chun. That is a hard thing to train though, and how can you be sure it will work unless you actually do get in a situation.
..yeah thats what i was trying to say.
Old Jong, granted you say you get it to work on mental patients 300% resisting etc.. How would you say your WC works in this situation. Not just the fact that you can get the job done (which i agree is the main thing)…but for people without such a large frame the key ideas of WC are extremely necessary for it to work. Some poeple dont have the muscle to back it up… when they cant stay calm cause they saw their mate just geting his head stomped in.
What do we really need to work on here?..mental fortitude in such situations?
Here is something my teacher say quite often.
“If you get angry or upset or tense or just
plain wild, can you beat Tiger Woods in golf?”
The answer is probably NO.
And I think this attitude must be with you
in Wing Chun. Its by spending many many hours
getting rid of the fighting instincts that
conflicts with your wing chun. You should
still have instincts but they should ideally
get you relaxed centered focused and
rooted.
And one more thing. Did you feel that the
extra 20 kg he had was too much ? Did he have
any rooting or was he leaning in on you ?
Just curious!
Joakim
www.wing-chun.nu
www.go.to/wingchun
joakim sez
Here is something my teacher say quite often.
“If you get angry or upset or tense or just
plain wild, can you beat Tiger Woods in golf?”
Correlatively
If you dont get angry or upset or tense or just
plain wild, can you beat Tiger Woods in golf?
Teebas sez
Ok thanks for the replies. Old Jong i hear what you are saying, but dont you think the MMA guys may have a point? (atleast in the idea that if you wan to be able look after your self NOW) it could be a good idea to train in this type of environment?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------I dont know first hand what wing chun environment you train in.
And. talking about good chi sao on the net is near impossible.
If you have the right kind of chi sao variety and experience you dont need what the MMA guys are saying IMO. Actual fight experience is a different thing and removed from sparring.
Sparring for some can build up personal confidence but it does not sharpen the unique wing chun motions. I know people with real fight experiences and wing chun backgrounds- wing chun training when well done is proven many times.
Now if one doesnt have good wing chun training-that is a different story witha possibly bad ending..
Steebas - IMO, first of all, dont listen too much to the MMA guys they have a different animal then we do. Secondly, dont listen to other people about your art, they always have opinions on your ‘weaknesses’ because they are in a different art.
Ultimately though I think you do need to do some training at 100%, or as close to it as safely possible. The MMA guys dont do it 100% either, they cant use thier joint breaks, and neck breaks right? Same with Wing chun, we cant use jabs to the eyes or throat, so you get as close as you can.
As for time to learn, well, wing chun is a comlicated art, but I believe it pays off. It may take you a few extra years to get to be really good, but I think you will be that much better for it.