Something Stinks!!!

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
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sanjuro-ronin had this to say on the “Way Forward” thread directed at the Wing Chun forum:

they are closed minded and arrogant AND ignorant about the reality of MA.
I think you guys just need to grow up, stop trying to be such prima donas
get over yourselves and grow up ( and grow a pair while you are at it).
Maybe you WC guys should trade in the sand in your vagina for a pair of balls
Everyone else sees you guys as the armchair warriors and drama queens that you are.
You guys are lucky than ANYONE wants to moderate this desolate waste of cyber space that is populated by a bunch of whiny pussies.

Nothing came of it, and in fact, when I pointed out that this was very inappropriate multiple people said that I was the one that was out-of-line.

Now today Ali R. said this in reply to something said by JP:

No one would agree on that statement but you, because you hate everything about me. The way I look, the way I post, the way I present my wing chun etc……….
He did not deal with the question at hand and everyone here knows that to be true, but you.

Granted, not the most respectful thing to say, but at least he didn’t call anyone a p@ssy.

Sanjuro Ronin responded with this:

And in regards to this post, I know have my moderator hat on by the way, what exactly are you saying here when you state that “you hate everything about me. The way I look…” Please be very clear because you seem to be implying something very, VERY serious.

And this:
Ali made false accusations and implied racism, that is far moire important that any WC silliness right now.
We have a zero tolerance for that crap, even in the WC forum.

And with no further warnings directly to Ali R. he is suddenly banned from this forum.

It seems we went from having no moderation at all, to having some pretty heavy-handed moderation. And from appearances, this came from sanjuro-ronin, who isn’t even a moderator for this forum and certainly isn’t one to be telling other people how to behave.

Something is not right here. Ali should not be banned.

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Don’t feel sad.

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[QUOTE=KPM;1269848]sanjuro-ronin had this to say on the “Way Forward” thread directed at the Wing Chun forum:

they are closed minded and arrogant AND ignorant about the reality of MA.
I think you guys just need to grow up, stop trying to be such prima donas
get over yourselves and grow up ( and grow a pair while you are at it).
Maybe you WC guys should trade in the sand in your vagina for a pair of balls
Everyone else sees you guys as the armchair warriors and drama queens that you are.
You guys are lucky than ANYONE wants to moderate this desolate waste of cyber space that is populated by a bunch of whiny pussies.

Nothing came of it, and in fact, when I pointed out that this was very inappropriate multiple people said that I was the one that was out-of-line.

Now today Ali R. said this in reply to something said by JP:

No one would agree on that statement but you, because you hate everything about me. The way I look, the way I post, the way I present my wing chun etc……….
He did not deal with the question at hand and everyone here knows that to be true, but you.

Granted, not the most respectful thing to say, but at least he didn’t call anyone a p@ssy.

Sanjuro Ronin responded with this:

And in regards to this post, I know have my moderator hat on by the way, what exactly are you saying here when you state that “you hate everything about me. The way I look…” Please be very clear because you seem to be implying something very, VERY serious.

And this:
Ali made false accusations and implied racism, that is far moire important that any WC silliness right now.
We have a zero tolerance for that crap, even in the WC forum.

And with no further warnings directly to Ali R. he is suddenly banned from this forum.

It seems we went from having no moderation at all, to having some pretty heavy-handed moderation. And from appearances, this came from sanjuro-ronin, who isn’t even a moderator for this forum and certainly isn’t one to be telling other people how to behave.

Something is not right here. Ali should not be banned.[/QUOTE]

Something is totally not right here . Ali should not be banned , he didn’t imply racism . About growing a pair of balls and awareness about some MA reality I can say this , I was in war in 1999 , fought against terrorists and their NATO bosses , I saw terrible things done by thous people , so terrible that 15 years after the war I cannot sleep . That is about reality , it is so funny when wannabe warriors are talking about reality . I play in the sand because I choose to do that , I refuse to hurt other human being and I will avoid violence any way I can . And what about right to freely express your self without judgement ? Why everyone have to be “warriors” to be accepted and respected ? We all measure the world with our own value system , but only small minded person would try to fit the whole world in it .

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[QUOTE=zuti car;1269854]Something is totally not right here . Ali should not be banned , he didn’t imply racism . About growing a pair of balls and awareness about some MA reality I can say this , I was in war in 1999 , fought against terrorists and their NATO bosses , I saw terrible things done by thous people , so terrible that 15 years after the war I cannot sleep . That is about reality , it is so funny when wannabe warriors are talking about reality . I play in the sand because I choose to do that , I refuse to hurt other human being and I will avoid violence any way I can . And what about right to freely express your self without judgement ? Why everyone have to be “warriors” to be accepted and respected ? We all measure the world with our own value system , but only small minded person would try to fit the whole world in it .[/QUOTE]

I agree. Ali should not be banned.

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[QUOTE=KPM;1269848]It seems we went from having no moderation at all, to having some pretty heavy-handed moderation. And from appearances, this came from sanjuro-ronin, who isn’t even a moderator for this forum… [/QUOTE]

Was there more going on behind the scenes? And would it be out of line to ask SR what’s going on here?

IMO “the way forward” isn’t about banning somebody over an ambiguous comment that may have been misconstrued, but instead we should simply ignore the trolls, resist the bait, and consistently set a positive example when posting. KPM, you do have a point. SR was hardly leading by example. And banning should be reserved for more extreme cases.

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[QUOTE=zuti car;1269854]Ali should not be banned , he didn’t imply racism .[/QUOTE]

Then what exactly did he imply? It’s not the first time he’s done so on these forums.

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I dont think Ali should be banned. He’s overall a cool guy, though I dont always agree with what he says.

But at the same time, what Sanjuro Ronin said about Wing Chunners, at least on these forums (and some others), is really not all that disrespectful when you consider how much truth there is to it. Sanjuro Ronin also happened to say this:

“The sad part is that I still love WC, I still use quite a bit of it and it served me well when I transitioned over to SPM.
And I am not alone on this.
WC is an excellent system, it is simple, concise and effective.
Because it is heavily specialized the “secret” to making it work ( IE: you can fight ANYONE with it, not just other WC people) is that you must cross-test it VS other systems that do NOT have the same body-movement patterns.
Doing WC VS VC will make you good at, gasp, fighting WC.
The carryover VS other systems is harder compared to say MT or Hung Kuen for example, is that those two have a more “natural” way of fighting while WC, as I have mentioned before, is more specialized.
It’s not just WC by the way, SPM, Dragons fist, Pak Mei, most of the southern “hands” have that “problem”.
Of course that problem is also it’s biggest advantage because since the southern hand fighter is bringing something different to the fight, he MAY have the advantage.”

I think it’s a pretty fair view for anyone who is willing to be open and rationale about it. The Wing Chun forum is often full of hearsay and theoretical talk with tons of sifu/lineage worshiping. I’m not saying the people here can’t fight. In fact, I’m in no place to say such a thing. But it’s no stretch to say that there’s a lot of LARPing going on here. Talking of theoretical force handing and how “wing chun should be” by people who most often dont (see: can’t) represent what they talk about. And in the few cases that we see the Chun win a competitive fight (see: Alan Orr), everyone who has no tangible evidence of their own skill is all of a sudden an armchair critic. What Ronin has expressed about wing chun and related forums is no attack. I love Ving Tsun and it’s my primary art, but its representation on forums is downright embarrassing.

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[QUOTE=LFJ;1269875]Then what exactly did he imply? It’s not the first time he’s done so on these forums.[/QUOTE]

Yep, it’s not the first time he’s done this, he pulls the race card when it suits him

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It’s hard to get banned. I’ve been trying for a long time without success.

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I also agree that Ali R. should not be banned. He has actively contributed content to this forum. I am at a loss for words as to why the moderators are choosing to allow the others to ruin this sub forum but ban members that contribute substantive content beyond harrying replies.

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If you don’t like there are two options

  1. Step up and moderate the forum
    1. go elsewhere
      I suppose there is a third option keep moaning and throwing your dummy out of the pram
      The top 8 threads on this forum are about hendrick, his stuff or things to come out of his stuff, that’s not evening including the thread dcolx deleted and the posts he removed, and you wonder why the moderators have arrived here?
      I suspect both Ronin and David have better things to do then pop into this sub forum (god I cant believe im sticking up for Jamison)
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[QUOTE=Frost;1269885]If you don’t like there are two options

  1. Step up and moderate the forum
    […][/QUOTE]

I have offered to do this in the past. I still don’t mind doing it.

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[QUOTE=Paddington;1269886]I have offered to do this in the past. I still don’t mind doing it.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn’t mind either. But there has been no call for moderators, nor has this position been openly offered that I know of.

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[QUOTE=EternalSpring;1269877]

But at the same time, what Sanjuro Ronin said about Wing Chunners, at least on these forums (and some others), is really not all that disrespectful when you consider how much truth there is to it. Sanjuro Ronin also happened to say this:

.[/QUOTE]

You seem to have missed the point. SR may very well have some valid criticisms of the Wing Chun forum, but it is HOW he presented those criticisms that is the issue. And he did this on a thread with a theme of “The Way Forward” when we had been talking about treating each other respectfully. And he did it very disrepectfully.

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[QUOTE=KPM;1269888]You seem to have missed the point. SR may very well have some valid criticisms of the Wing Chun forum, but it is HOW he presented those criticisms that is the issue. And he did this on a thread with a theme of “The Way Forward” when we had been talking about treating each other respectfully. And he did it very disrepectfully.[/QUOTE]

I didn’t ban Ali, Gene did and only Gene can ban and He did so based on the evidence.
It is NOT the first time he has been banned for the same reasons.
He made a slanderous accusation with no basis of merit ( saying I plagiarized an article when I l posted a link to a different website, obviously he has no clue what plagiarism is).
He then implied that another member was racist because he ( the other member ) didn’t like how Ali looked.
When I warned him, he told me off.

We have rules here, maybe you guys should familiarize yourselves with them.

That is all that there is to say on that matter.

This is what I posted on that thread:

FYI:
We have a zero tolerance for accusations of slander, racism, plagiarism, basically any accusation that is serious enough to warrant legal action.
The individual in question that shot out those accusations has been banned, as he was before when he did similar things and “snuck” back in with a different IP address.
We can discuss and argue and debate MA as much as we want and it can get as heated as it can UP TO THE POINT where anyone making slanderous accusations will be banned.
It is just the simple.

If you have an argument and you feel it has merit then make your point and leave it be, if it has merit and can stand on its own, great, if not then that is OK too.
What is 100% NOT acceptable is slanderous accusations ( like saying someone is plagiarizing an article) or insinuating that someone is a racist.

Hope that is understood by all.

Carry on.

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[QUOTE=anerlich;1269880]It’s hard to get banned. I’ve been trying for a long time without success.[/QUOTE]

Its pretty easy actually.
Break the rules that will get you banned, as Ali has done more than once.
Also coming back under another IP address when banned will do it to, which is what Ali also did.

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[QUOTE=KPM;1269888]You seem to have missed the point. SR may very well have some valid criticisms of the Wing Chun forum, but it is HOW he presented those criticisms that is the issue. And he did this on a thread with a theme of “The Way Forward” when we had been talking about treating each other respectfully. And he did it very disrepectfully.[/QUOTE]

You know what Kevin, you are right.
Yes, I was disrespectful.
It seems that I may have fallen into the trap that I try very hard not to and that is the “ends justify the means”.
I tried to be disrespectful and rude on purpose to “wake you guys up” from this “stupor” that you seem to be in.
I was WRONG to do it that way.

I truly apologize to you and to any others that I may have offended.

Please understand that I do hold WC in a high regard and that is why I get a bit ****ed off when I see the silliness in the WC forums.
That is no excuse for writing what I did even IF it was with good intentions.

Again I apologize for the rudeness of my comments.

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[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1269898]I didn’t ban Ali, Gene did and only Gene can ban and He did so based on the evidence.
It is NOT the first time he has been banned for the same reasons.
He made a slanderous accusation with no basis of merit ( saying I plagiarized an article when I l posted a link to a different website, obviously he has no clue what plagiarism is).
He then implied that another member was racist because he ( the other member ) didn’t like how Ali looked.
When I warned him, he told me off.

We have rules here, maybe you guys should familiarize yourselves with them.

That is all that there is to say on that matter.

This is what I posted on that thread:

FYI:
We have a zero tolerance for accusations of slander, racism, plagiarism, basically any accusation that is serious enough to warrant legal action.
The individual in question that shot out those accusations has been banned, as he was before when he did similar things and “snuck” back in with a different IP address.
We can discuss and argue and debate MA as much as we want and it can get as heated as it can UP TO THE POINT where anyone making slanderous accusations will be banned.
It is just the simple.

If you have an argument and you feel it has merit then make your point and leave it be, if it has merit and can stand on its own, great, if not then that is OK too.
What is 100% NOT acceptable is slanderous accusations ( like saying someone is plagiarizing an article) or insinuating that someone is a racist.

Hope that is understood by all.

Carry on.[/QUOTE]

Hang on a second, did you write that article you linked to? If not there is no way that charge of plagiarism can stand as a rule break. Besides, I think all Ali was trying to say by using the term plagiarism is that you personally cannot explain in simple language that takes few words, kinesiology and bio-mechanics. Instead you had to resort to going off site for an article and using that instead of your own words; a ‘metaphorical plagiarism’ if you will.

As for Ali accusing people of being racist, that is really tenuous too. Looks include many, many features or even the way someone dresses. It is a common phrase to say to someone ‘I don’t like the way you look’. Ali getting banned is bollocks and the context of his comments is clear. I bet some of you are rubbing your hands with glee at what you see as a ‘victory’. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

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[QUOTE=Paddington;1269903]Hang on a second, did you write that article you linked to? If not there is no way that charge of plagiarism can stand as a rule break. Besides, I think all Ali was trying to say by using the term plagiarism is that you personally cannot explain in simple language that takes few words, kinesiology and bio-mechanics. Instead you had to resort to going off site for an article and using that instead of your own words; a ‘metaphorical plagiarism’ if you will.

As for Ali accusing people of being racist, that is really tenuous too. Looks include many, many features or even the way someone dresses. It is a common phrase to say to someone ‘I don’t like the way you look’. Ali getting banned is bollocks and the context of his comments is clear. I bet some of you are rubbing your hands with glee at what you see as a ‘victory’. You should be ashamed of yourselves.[/QUOTE]

Did you not read what Ronin wrote, he didnt ban anyone he cant, only Gene can, and for gene to make the ban he obviously saw something because he needs evidence before doing anything, something that has been seen before because he has been banned before
if it is bollocks and you cant stand the people who moderate here, then the answer is quite simple, find another forum to grace your presence with and stop crying on this one

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[QUOTE=Paddington;1269903]Ali getting banned is bollocks and the context of his comments is clear.[/QUOTE]

What exactly then was he referring to when he accused JP of hating him for the way he looks? In what clear context was that comment made? What did it have to do with anything? Where did it even come from?

For those who’ve been around longer than yourself and have witnessed Ali’s paranoid attitude and unwarranted accusations implying racism in the past, it’s only history repeating itself. As if being banned for it before wasn’t warning enough…