I read the below article today…
…and it got me wondering - how long does it take (on average) for a student to reach black belt in your style/system?
took me five years. but i studied taekwondo for another five years prior to that. so by the time i got a black belt, i had a cumulative ten years of experience.
for all the difference it makes.
my friend matt got his black belt in taekwondo years before i got mine in eskrima. and he told me at the time (high school), “you think it’s going to change everything, but i feel exactly like i did yesterday.”
i think that says it all.
I’ve got three of them in three different arts…right now they’re only good for holding up my pants…
All my Shifu’s can still beat my a** -
I read somewhere that traditionally if you recieve your black belt , you have only mastered the basics- i guees that’s true
I read somewhere that traditionally if you recieve your black belt , you have only mastered the basics- i guees that’s true
that’s what they say, yeah. but even that isn’t a guarantee.
Black belts don’t have that much fun.
I want to be a pair of low-rider, hiphugger blue jeans!
and now that i’ve actually taken the time to read the article…
very good read. the whole paper money-martial arts analogy is a bit unwieldy. but whatever. the main point was beautiful.
stuart
7-8 yrs for shuai chiao, 10 yrs for kung fu.
Belts are for non chinese styles. Well except shai chiao, for some reason it doesn’t bother me that hey have belts.
good summary article. it’s nothing new, as this problem has been around for a while, and it’s shame that those who really need to read it and understand it aren’t the ones who look for it. few of the bums who have that problem will admit this about their school, and the rest of society doesn’t often pick up MA publications.
eh, I just don’t like the whole idea. You are either a student, a fighter, or a coach. Or some combination thereof. But really you should always remain all three as you progress.
For instance, one school owner confided, “My students’ parents expect their child will be a second-degree black belt by age 12. If not, they will take him elsewhere.”
Kind of says a lot
Originally posted by NorthernMantis
Belts are for non chinese styles. Well except shai chiao, for some reason it doesn’t bother me that hey have belts.
belts are just as much the bane of nonchinese styles as they are for kung fu. taekwondo, karate, and a bunch of other styles could benefit as much from a reanalysis of the belt system as kung fu would.
that said, in my experience, i can think of more nonchinese styles that don’t seem to use a belt system than i can chinese styles (though my experience may not be representative of the whole).
stuart
True
If you train about every day for 23 and a half hours you can do it in 4-5 years. For most of the students thought it take 6-8 years to get it. My school has been around for a little more than 10 years and we’ve only had about 8 people to make it to black belt out of hundreds(close to a thousand I believe).Most of those people have gone into things involving law enforcement.One of them works for the CIA now.
Black Belt=Beginner
The Japanese word the 1st degree black belt is Shodan. Sho=front, in this context it means first. Dan=step. So literally translated, shodan means first step. In most Japanese schools (by this I mean schools in Japan), shodan represents rudimentary understanding. It symbolizes that the student has begun his or her own training path. It’s the difference between someone who is studying a language and is still learning the grammar and vocabulary, versus the student who can now put sentences together, conjugate verbs, and hold simplistic conversations. Would you call that person fluent? Of course not. But that person has the tools to further their own education. If you immerse that person in the language and culture they’re studying, they will become fluent much more quickly than someone who has never studied.
I draw this analogy because we all train for different purposes. Just as some guys take French because that is what all the cute girls take, some people undertake the study of martial arts for frivolous reasons. Once the training has begun, they will either drop out or learn to love it for other reasons.
The true crime of all this grade inflation is the inordinate ego gratification that takes place at the cost of a true education in martial science. The parent who demands that their child be promoted as fast as possible isn’t looking out for their kids’ best interest; they’re merely feeding their own ego so they can brag to their friends that their 7 year old is already a black belt. Can anyone think of something more worthless than a supposed rank of mastery given to a seven year old? And yet you see schools who boast of children as young as that being given the vaunted black belt. The rankings are used to entice more money from the students, who believe they are progressing into what the rank represents.
As usual in American culture, we’re more interested in the trappings than the substance. We’d rather have the big house and the BMW (both with huge payments of course) than actually be rich. And unfortunately most people would rather have the black belt than whatever that represents to them. Why? Because both being rich and achieving mastery of a martial art require sacrifice and dedication, neither of which we’re willing to give. It’s a sad commentary on the something for nothing culture we’ve built in the modern era.
Sorry for the long rant; I’m gonna go train now.
Re: Black Belt=Beginner
Originally posted by kenso
It’s a sad commentary on the something for nothing culture we’ve built in the modern era.
I think this says it all really!
What I found interesting in that article was that the understanding among the non-martial artist seems to be that a black belt equals some kind of mastery. However, most martial artists I talk to understand that it actually means you’ve just started to learn.
So, how did that discrepancy of understanding happen?
My guess - ego and advertising of McDojo schools everywhere. :rolleyes:
“My guess - ego and advertising of McDojo schools everywhere”
If we want to approach it from that angle, we have to consider the Orient as well.
The Japanese used belt ranks in judo, and those were incorporated into karate. Now schools in the East use belt ranks as well.
“everywhere” indeed!
excellent post, kenso.
Black belt . schmack belt.
Many of us here have one, have had one, are working towards one or are working past the unusual attachment we have for one.
The Black Belt means nothing. It has no value except to the one who would pursue it as some sort of prize as opposed to using it for what it is, a measuring stick of ones own progress in the insular world of the singular art they are studying.
Your black belt means nothing to the guy who scker punches you in the parking lot.
It means nothing in the world where university degrees are what counts and where someones skill is measured against what they get paid in their bread and butter day to day grind.
It has absolutely become the extrinsic focus in many martial arts.
This is sad, because it defrays the intrinsic lessons in the art you have chosen to study.
it is true, belts are useful for helping you to be concious of your centre (dan tien) and also for holding up your pants. beyond that they only measure you against you.
peace
Depending on the integrity of the belt system in the style, they are useful as a rough gauge of ability and material learned. Other than that shrug
It’s a sad commentary on the something for nothing culture we’ve built in the modern era.
Actually, it’s a commentary on being human.