There seems to be a bit of a tendency in the Wing Chun community to see any differences from one’s own way of doing things as a negative thing, which I’ve never understood…
circular movements in SLT
There are several differences between Traditional Wing Chun vs modified wing chun in all the WC FORMS both empty hand and weapons.In SLT,
the circular movements that you refer to is called lau sao.This off the centerline movement is not present in modified wing chun SLT which only does a huen sao instead. Bong sao is done with the elbow at eyebrow level and the hand kept straight inline with the forearm. The tan sao and wu sao come out to face level and not at chest level as the modified wing chun version does…also the fook sao is pointing at the opposite foot as it goes out creating a tunnel with the forearm to protect the centerline…
Keep in mind that the video clip movements are performed at a faster pace then normal so that your clip can be downloadable…
Siu lim tao and chum kiu clips
The circling hand that people are calling flowery, is called a lau sao (slippling hand). You must disengage the centerline in order to get around an opponents arm. Try getting around an arm while leaving your arm directly in the center, like in a huen sao. Some will say that a circle is not as direct or efficient as a straight line, but remember, a circle can be as small as a pinpoint. Also, the wooden dummy teaches proper WC positioning. The tan sao performed on the dummy is face high. Try it.
A circle is composed of an infinity of straight lines. That circle thingy is still WAY to big.
My Sifu learned from William Cheung back in the early 80’s. Our forms do not look like this, we do perform the heun sau (small circle) our tan sau is high, but not right in front of the face. In Chum Kil we go forward after bong/larp sau not on a 45 degree angle. Where these changes came from I’m not sure, but Sifu Cheung has been known to change stuff along the way. Also in Sifu Cheung’s lineage I never heard of Chum Kil being called Chum Kiu. Just my opinion.
John
Have little and gain;
Have much and be confused.
Give it up WCFist!
Don’t you know that kungfu cowboy is a master. He knows!
That flowery circle thingy is WAY too big. Maybe if you circled a little smaller…ok, alot smaller, it would be acceptable.
“Circle thingy” thats a very funny way of talking about a technique you know nothing about…well duh i guess your master knows everything about the infinity of straight lines in a circle I think you all miss the point…but thats ok next time someone pak saos your forearm try doing your “straight thingy huen sao” and see if you get anywhere
Sharky
My anus is superior…
Maybe,but your Mac Sux! 
I agree with ATENG
[This message was edited by tnwingtsun on 09-03-01 at 03:23 PM.]
I speak Cantonese. Chum Kiu is the proper way to pronounce it. Biu Jee is also correct. If you don’t believe me. Write to the US Foreign Service, or Yale University Language Dept. They are the experts on proper Cantonese pronounciation. Maybe with your great knowledge of the language you can correct them. Sifu Cheung did not have to learn Cantonese through phonetics, so his romanization is off a little. He sometimes uses, tarn sao, but there is no “r” sound in Cantonese. It’s funny how people make statements with little or no knowledge. I have a tape of Sifu Cheung at his first NYC seminar in 1984 where he does the lau sao just as I described
Yes. My secret is discovered. I have a subscription to the “secret books of mystical wing chun correct application” Time/Life series.
I would use a circle only as big as the hand that makes it for huen sao. Otherwise, if using the whole arm, too much time. Just go straight towards them then. Why go around the block when you can cut through the back yard?
digitize
"It’s funny how people make statements with little or no knowledge. I have a tape of Sifu Cheung at his first NYC seminar in 1984 where he does the lau sao just as I described "
why not digitize this portion of the video? i am curious to see how he executes it.
–
chi kwai
Thanks Maestro –> On William Cheung and Hung Fa Yi
I asked if the forms were similar as I have heard from students of William Cheung that upon seeing Garrett Gee they were shocked as he and moved in the same way as William Cheung did.
That led me to wonder if the other form of Wing Chun which William used to claim he learned from Yip Man, but then also told Tai-pan that he learned while in South China from someone else, was in fact a variant of Hung Fa Yi. Perhaps some of the folks here on the list from the east coast could discuss this with Joe Grepo and see what he says.
I know that some of ex-William Cheung australian guy’s (from the Rick Spain group), mention red boat more these days and refer to themselves as hung suen style, etc.
Therefore, my question was, if Garrett and William had the same structure and movement, was that because they were doing the same Wing Chun variant?
If that was the case, then perhaps their basic 3 sets would have the same movements, presuming we buy into William’s story of a different version of Wing Chun and it not being an interpretation he has developed on his own.
The Chum Kiu form they are doing on the wing chun kwoon site, looks very different. With almost a karate flavor to it, what with the front kicks.
Hey kungfu cowboy. The whole arm isn’t used. (Mou yuk jong.)You’ve got 700 plus posts. Do you ever train?
Train? 
I thought this was like Dungeons & Dragons, and this is my character. 
D&D
…too funny, you keep rolling ones.
Practice more, bicker less
Chum Kil. Sifu Cheung has taught Chum Kiu the same since he first came to the States. I have the tapes. We’re sitting here watching the tapes right now laughing at the statements some of you guys make. The movement after the first in SLT is called, Lau Sao. And the Tan Sao is done with the bend of the wrist level to the tip of your nose. Try it on the dummy. I’ve studied many different versions on WC. Some with principles I don’t agree with. But I never speak badly of my fellow WChunners. Everyone has their preferences. You guys need to be more like men not women. Gossip is for B-t-hes.
For the keyboard warriors
The movement after the first punch in SLT is called lau sao, (slipping hand). You must disengage the centerline to execute it. Heun sao is done after the fook sao.
Laughing?
I find your reply comical. I don’t wish to be inflamatory, but here you see a cross section of almost every lineage in wing chun essentially saying “I have never seen a ‘lau sao’ in sil nim tao”. Even students of your are saying this and yet, you laugh.
I am not saying this isn’t how it was taught to you, nor am I even saying this is wrong. I would just be more careful when choosing your words. More often than not people laugh at that which they do not understand. 
–
chi kwai
Let’s try to be more open-minded and mature about Wing Chun
Hi everyone,
Wing Chun lineages are very diverse and there are
bound to be differences in the hand, dummy, and weapon forms.
Anything different from what you study will surprise you because it is different from what you are used to, but try to be humble and respectful, and try to
avoid making hasty and arrogant judgements.
Anyone of us with any fighting experience knows that it all comes down to “Are you impressive in applying your wing chun in a real fight against a great opponent?”
If no, then be quiet. If yes, then you probably have a right to an opinion.
So quit nitpicking and train hard; and respect your wing chun siblings and cousins!
If you need to pick on a style, pick on something other than Wing Chun!
And for the person who said that the Yuen Sao in
William Cheung’s SLT is “flowery”, relax, flowery stuff is what Jackie Chan
does in the movies.
“Kick his ass, Sea-Bass!” - Dumb and Dumber