Erm… Dunno the name of it.
Set up & execution -
Attacker shoots in, we’ll say to your right side. Your arm wraps around his head, control his right arm. Your arm around his head shoots up under his left armpit, your left elbow drops onto his right shoulder. Your right arm pulls up while the left forces downward, take his right leg either with your right or more preferably the left (if its strong enough).
Works great tho, whatever its called.
Id use the crucifix in its place, but in training thats a kinda dangerous thing to be using… Im not about breaking someone’s neck. But if you think its ineffective or unusable… maybe you need some better training partners. :eek:
hey meathead, I mean ‘shake’
your pm box is full.
Does that counter to the takedown regularly work for and against you?
Do you and your training partners regularly get tapped with the crucifix?
Id use the crucifix in its place, but in training thats a kinda dangerous thing to be using… Im not about breaking someone’s neck.
Interesting comment the gives me great insight into your training
Erm… if you know what you are doing its actually pretty easy to break a neck like that… mine popped last time I was in it…
I dont go for submissions usually.
“Interesting comment the gives me great insight into your training”
lol. Say that to kirk. :rolleyes:
“Does that counter to the takedown regularly work for and against you”
This makes no sense.
“Do you and your training partners regularly get tapped with the crucifix?”
Nope. I use the set up for it for a takedown. You apparently havent touched hands with many skilled people or you wouldnt be so cocky.
Oso- done.
I really don’t want to get dragged into this argument, but in my experience, the crucifix is a counter that works well only on people without much mat time.
If it’s working for you, great. But I think there are far better ways to deal with this.
Secondly, the crucifix most certainly can break a neck. Classifying it as “easy” however, isn’t really accurate. We’ve got to get away from this idea that breaking necks is a simple task. It isn’t.
Erm… if you know what you are doing its actually pretty easy to break a neck like that… mine popped last time I was in it…
I dont go for submissions usually.
Did you tapout or did the person applying it decide you weren’t going to and let up?
“Interesting comment the gives me great insight into your training”
lol. Say that to kirk. :rolleyes:
Sorry but that wasn’t a negative comment. Everyone trains differently
“Does that counter to the takedown regularly work for and against you”
This makes no sense.
I’m just asking if you get it on others regularly and if they get you with it regularly.
“Do you and your training partners regularly get tapped with the crucifix?”
Nope. I use the set up for it for a takedown. You apparently havent touched hands with many skilled people or you wouldnt be so cocky.
We are talking about the entry to the crucifix position? Very interesting that its a common counter because I would figure anyone decent at takedowns would have you on your ass before you get the chance to try it. I have “touched hands”, and many other body parts, with highly skilled grapplers. I however have trouble training consistently.
by the way… cool technique to post blocked words 
Originally posted by Meat Shake
You apparently havent touched hands with many skilled people or you wouldnt be so co
Can you name some “skilled” grapplers you have rolled with?
Hope you guys don’t mind if I bu tt in on this conversation.
Just had some questions about shooting.
For starters I’ve seen double & single legs that were more about breaking balance versus shooting in to scoop up and slam Rampage Jackson style.
I’m assuming for the single leg, whether your just looking to trip 'em up, or you wanna hoist 'em up to slam 'em down; either way, you should shoot with head inside the thigh, right?
Especially in a MMA/wrestling/grappling type match where the counter submission could be applied?
I’m just curious cuz it seems that head inside would mean supporting the weight more with one arm versus the other; and would also somewhat change the angle of your shoot.
I’ve managed to pull off the scooping one, with head outside the leg, in practise, and I guess it means I should try to modify somewhat to get the head inside and stay safer…
I’m having a little trouble following this topic myself, but I will say this. Knifefighter, Truewrestler, Meatshake is training with one of the best Shuai Chiao guys in the country, hands down. I’ve trained with Kirk myself, and I’ll vouch for him anytime. That doesn’t mean a whole lot on the 'net as we’ve never trained together ourselves. But if you’re gonna talk $hit about MS’s teacher, understand that you’re walking around with a mouth full of $hit.
Originally posted by Water Dragon
Meatshake is training with one of the best Shuai Chiao guys in the country, hands down.
Has he ever entered any open grappling competitions?
Jowbacca,
Where are you in Maryland? I’m in Northern Virginia.
I’m just curious cuz it seems that head inside would mean supporting the weight more with one arm versus the other; and would also somewhat change the angle of your shoot.
Inside or Outside? Just wanted to make sure that wasn’t a typo or understand the question better before giving some specific input.
I shoot a single (head inside) and high-crotch (head outside) very differently. The single and double generally use the basic shooting motion. For the high-crotch I use more of a swimming motion – leading with my inside shoulder and knee, knee maybe tapping the ground while I reach with my inside arm under my opponent to the leg and then square up and circle or switch to the double. I generally find it much easier to shoot a high-crotch than a double leg in wrestling/grappling because it is one quick motion with your body instead of moving your entire body on the double.
There are few finishes to the single leg or high-crotch where you lift your opponent off the ground and slam… that is almost exclusive to the double leg.
Water Dragon,
I’ll try to keep my mouth clean
Well goin back to some of what WaterDragon said; havin this conversation degrade into a style vs style; this or that won’t work; name-callin fest would be a shame.
I think there was probably a bit of friction of what would and wouldn’t work once BJJ people and wrestlers started exchanging.
Just asking that you guys let cooler heads prevail and keep this a friendly exchange.
Whether you do something different, or you have a counter to a particular move; I’d rather see sharing instead of “laying down the law” and implying that someone doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
Not tryin to be a tree hugger or your daddy, I just think these kind of discussions could be a real positive thing.
Originally posted by Knifefighter
Has he ever entered any open grappling competitions?
Probably more of a San Shou type match. What I can tell you for sure is that Kirk just got 3rd black a couple weeks ago, and one of the requirements for black in our organization is, “A respectable tournament fighting record.” There’s a lot of leeway in that, but the tournament will have both striking and stand up wrestling in it.
So Open grappling with groundwork? Probably not
Striking and throws? Well yeah, like I said, it’s a requirement.
I live in Glen Burnie. I’ve gone down to work with Kru Miller & Jeff down there in Virginia a few times. Met ShaolinTiger00, Apoweyn, and MerryP last winter at 3rd Power for the big MD/VA/DC exchange. Way past due for another one by the way.
I think what I do is similar to a high crotch. Basically what happens is I’ll lead with a kick and then go to hands once I closed distance. If the other guy’s starting to light me up, I shoot in on his lead leg; head outside, shoulder squeezing in on the inside of the thigh as my (usually) left arm wraps around, bicep high up on the thigh, elbow down, fist up. From there I can usually hoist the guy up for a slam- lifting up directly under his center of gravity.
edit: it’s practically a fireman’s carry without securing his arm.
I figure if I shoot head inside the thigh, I’ve gotta lean in way to the left so that my rear (right arm) can grab his thigh- but won’t be as close to his center of balance, so I could see it being harder to lift unless I went the extra step for the double leg. Plus coming down the center instead of kind of arcing down and to the right might put me in range for more of his tools.
I’m going to try to work on it, I’m just raising some issues that are popping into my head.
That’s great that competition is a requirement
I think you guys just misunderstand. MerryPrankster wrestled in highschool and some in college. I would guess well over 100 wrestling matches and 4 or 5 years in BJJ with dozens of bjj/grappling matches. He is a purple belt in BJJ which is generally considered the black belt level of other martial arts.
If he makes a comment about submissions or wrestling takedowns (his specialties) I take that to heart.
I don’t know Kirk but from what you say he is not big into submissions so I’ll go with my experience and what MP says.
Really not a big deal and no disrespect intended with my previous posts.
3.5 years of BJJ.
As far as my wrestling, let’s not overstate the case. I was a talented HS wrestler who didn’t work near **** hard enough to reach my potential. As far as college, I only wrestled a year and a half before I quit…being 17 and wrestling 23 year olds has a way of destroying your will to live–especially when you’ve got military requirements on top of academic ones, etc.
Although I have had probably hundreds of grappling matches–that I’ll grant you. 
Originally posted by Merryprankster
…being 17 and wrestling 23 year olds has a way of destroying your will to live–especially when you’ve got military requirements on top of academic ones, etc.
Yah, I get the same feeling when I spar MusicalKataChamp… or when I get KOed by a kick I shoulda seen 5 minutes before it landed…
Just asking that you guys let cooler heads prevail and keep this a friendly exchange.
Whether you do something different, or you have a counter to a particular move; I’d rather see sharing instead of “laying down the law” and implying that someone doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
Not tryin to be a tree hugger or your daddy, I just think these kind of discussions could be a real positive thing.
yes, please.
this is a good discussion.
I didn’t shoot a single or double in HS. Never really worked for me for whatever reason, not fast enough maybe.
my senior year it was all firemans with the occasional ‘barnyard’ toss which I got when they read my firemans…as I remember they would back out of the firemans but be really bent over and I would grab the head, stand up and pop the hip into them.
but that doesn’t really matter since there’s 18 years of water under the bridge.
my question came up because I was shown a single with the head to the outside last night and we were working counters to that and it seemed contradictory to what I remembered. I’ve also seen what appears to be a lot of single legs in vid clips I’ve downloaded but now that ‘high crotch’ is thrown in that may be what I’m looking at.
so, in a high crotch, the head would be higher on the torso…closer to the ribs vs near the leg??? don’t remember this from HS.
Originally posted by truewrestler
[B]
I don’t know Kirk but from what you say he is not big into submissions so I’ll go with my experience and what MP says.
[/B]
That’s fine. We’re not big into subs. My point is that you shouldn’t take Meat Shakes inability to explain a concept as Kirk’s inability to explain or perform it. It’s not exactly a stupid man’s commentary on a wise man’s words, but it is a 3 month white belts commentary on a 20 year black belt’s teachings. That’s not a slam on MS, he’s trying, and if he hasn’t quit that class yet, he’s a down mutha ****a. You’ll get there Bro, just remember to tuck and not bang your ankles 