No, I’m not native to MS but we’ve been here for about 3.5 years now.
I take shotokan because the school I’m at is one of the best in the state, and I also happen to enjoy the different facets of the art.
Oh, by the way, grappling is already inherent within the style of shotokan. If you have a good instructor he already knows this and will show it to you. 
K. Mark Hoover
why did you make the change
Now on a personal note. Why the did most of you make a change from Shotokan to another art? I am doing a little soul searching myself and want to temper my decision with your experiences.
Damn double posting
Must be work. Yeah that’s it.
Sparring and Self defense in Shotokan
From the experience you guys gained during Shotokan training how does the sparring hold up againts TKD and other arts? Also is the self defense side close to realistic without to many silly moves?
I sense that some here will disagree with me, but here goes.
The shotokan training I did was not geared toward self defense. I do feel that it would improve your chances in a confrontation. Its greatest strengths were in hand-eye coordination and hand speed. Its sparring by and large is pretty fast and pretty intense; in our class the free sparring was hard contact to the body but no contact to the face (punches always controlled). We either wore no pads or just those little football hand pads. Some people wore shin pads.
No contact to the face sucks. It was better than “point” sparring, though, in that shotokan judges wouldn’t score a blow to the head unless it was powerful and well-aimed. Still, it was a big problem at the time. There are better gloves now (like MMA gloves) that perhaps have allowed students to strike to the face. In any case, I did feel my punching improved a lot in shotokan.
Also, one point and three point sparring was helpful in developing pretty good hand-eye coordination.
The first time a sparred NHB, though, was eye-opening. Shotokan sparring didn’t teach me anything about standup or prone grappling, clinch fighting, spacial tactics (using walls, corners, furniture, other objects etc.) dirty tactics, psychology of confrontations, ground fighting, or submissions. There were all kinds of omissions, and they became glaringly obvious.
If self-defense is your primary interest, then I would say the kihon (basics) and kata (forms) of shotokan are pretty much a waste of time. If self-defense is only part of your interest, then I would say that shotokan can be very fulfilling. Its techniques are not flashy, and most of them are not “pointless.” But you have to enjoy kata for its own sake, and basics for their own sake, because if you don’t you’ll be frustrated by the amount of time spent on them. Also, they don’t add much, IMO, to your fighting skills.
Shotokan as I was taught it was a real zen thing. My view is that it is a first rate martial art, but second rate for self-defense.
Oh, another thing to keep in mind: most shotokan schools seem to have adopted the traditional mindset that the style’s own way of doing things is the “best” way. Don’t expect to be able to criticize or disagree with your instructor about very much as far as technique is concerned.
I sometimes consider getting involved in shotokan again, my I’m afraid my experiences in kickboxing and judo have pretty much ruined me. I find shotokan just too constraining and stylized.
We used to have guys from a nearby Shotokan school “visit” the JJJ school I went to. They were fast, powerful and easy to throw and lock. Now that’s just the school that used to visit us, I’ve since met Shotokan people who are practicle.
“Americans don’t have the courage to come here,” Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban who right about now is getting jiggy with his first of 70 virgins.
“Are you guys ready? Let’s roll.†Last words of Todd Beamer heard over his mobile line right before rushing a hijacker.
“Kihon and kata aren’t good for self defense”
Shotokan kata are loaded with self-defense and grappling moves. If you have a good instructor he will be able to point them out to you and help you develop them. Besides that, I’ve never heard of a karate school that DOESN’T teach basic self-defense techniques, although I suppose they do exist. (More’s the pity)
Kihon too are practical for self-defense. Even a simple block can be used as a self-defense move or even a pre-emptive attack if launched correctly. Again, the key to learning this is by finding a good instructor–an increasingly difficult job in this age of cookie-cutter McDojos…
K. Mark Hoover
Shotokan Karate
Personally, I have never trained in Shotokan Karate, and so I do not have the experience needed to make an educated surmise of the styles strengths and weaknesses.
But, I have trained with several Shotokan stylists over the years and found what they did to be very similar to Isshinryu karate in content. In other words it was pretty generic Japanese/Okinawan karate. Nothing that really made it stand out as compared to Isshin-ryu or most other karate systems that I have seen.
Keep in mind that I am speaking purely about the techniques and their execution, not the philosophy behing the art or its concepts.
Unlike many of you, I made the switch from a more traditional karate style (Isshin-ryu) to kempo (not American kenpo). I by far prefer kempo to karate, but that’s just me.
Interesting. I actually took isshin-ryu before I switched to shotokan and noticed several fundamental differences between the two styles. And neither are generic Okinawan karate styles, IMO.
K. Mark Hoover
Isshinryu was my first art and I still get the occaisional lesson in once in a while. I always felt it was different than Shotokan too. Budokan why’d you switch?
“Americans don’t have the courage to come here,” Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban who right about now is getting jiggy with his first of 70 virgins.
“Are you guys ready? Let’s roll.†Last words of Todd Beamer heard over his mobile line right before rushing a hijacker.
BTW, it sounds like your problem is with your instructor and his business practices, not with American Kenpo itself. Who is your instructor? I didn’t know there was anyone teaching AK in El Paso.
JWT
If you pr!ck us, do we not bleed? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that the villany you teach me, I will execute, and it shall go hard but I will better the instruction. MOV
JWT,
Your right my issue is not with American Kenpo as a martial art. The system is organized well and is structured for learning. Kenpo is beuatiful to practice and watch. We have Four schools in the area. One of those is in Jaurez. They differ slightly on kata, and techniques from El Pasa but are tough fighters. Almost time for class. Be cool.
I switched because I moved from Shreveport (where I had taken isshin-ryu). I wanted to stay in the JMA so decided to take shotokan. I really like shotokan, but have to admit there’s a soft spot in my heart for my old isshin-ryu classes.
K. Mark Hoover
Shotokan & Isshinryu
Shotokan and Isshinryu do have many differences, but their simularities are far greater in my opinion.
They use different kata. Yes, but the techniques within the kata are the same.
Isshinryu uses vertical punches primarily. Yes, but the method of generating power is the same as with reverse punching.
When I use the term “generic”, I am making a very broad statement about the skill base.
For example: In my opinion, if a practitioner truly earns the rank of black belt in Shotokan, it will not be difficult for him to earn one in Isshinryu. Pretty much all he would need to do would be to learn the kata, lineage, history, and customs. He already has the skills.
However, his karate skills are a bit farther removed from kung fu or jujitsu skills.
To me, most styles are generic. Isshinryu is generic when put along side Shotokan, Shito-ryu, Wado-ryu, Shorin-ryu, American karate, etc.
“For example: In my opinion, if a practitioner truly earns the rank of black belt in Shotokan, it will not be difficult for him to earn one in Isshinryu. Pretty much all he would need to do would be to learn the kata, lineage, history, and customs. He already has the skills.”
Its true, I have black belts in a couple systems. They have different approaches, but basics are basics. Some are more fluid than others or specialize a certain area, but basically the same.
Thanks guys
Thank you for all the replies. I will consider everyones advice and continue training in American Kenpo for now. Someone once said the time to quit is not when your at the bottom of the doodoo pile but when your on top and feeling good about yourself. Now if I were only wearing my boots!
My Shotokan Experience.
I was in Shotokan for about a year. Here’s what I learned.
Shotokan was a mid to long range style as it was taught to me. Being 5’3 made the system pretty difficult. Lots of really high kicks were stressed, which again put me at a disadvantage. This was my first martial art, so I didn’t have any concept of any other techniques other than the same ones being taught to the 6 footers, which as usual were very long range or incorporated high kicks (arguably one of the worst combat techniques).
The good that came of my experience is that Shotokan is EXCELLENT for learning how to maximise power. Stance training is excellent also.
JuJitsu was taught along with Shotokan. Jujitsu is a beautiful system for self defense.
My experience may not be the same as others, I’m just sharing how I felt about the art.
High-kicks in shotokan? Maybe in some of the higher level katas, sure, but not in the basic techniques, not at all. Nor are they stressed as important requirements to the style.
Sounds like you were in a dojo (read: instructor) that didn’t know how to teach fundamental shotokan. Or someplace that was giving you a fusion of styles and they just called it “shotokan” for marketing purposes…?
K. Mark Hoover
Budokan that is very probable. 