[QUOTE=GeneChing;656213]And given my hair dramatics, I’d be the last one to bust anyone about hair styles…:o[/QUOTE]
You’ve had doos that match, or are kookier, then the queue?
[QUOTE=The Xia;713327]You’ve had doos that match, or are kookier, then the queue?[/QUOTE]
yes,
somewhere there are pictures. and im sure gene will look for them if you ask enough!
So you are saying Gene would have to be pestered enough to post those pictures? 
That would mean he has some reluctance. Gene doesn’t strike me as that kind of person. He seems far too laid back to be embarrassed about some hairdos from the past.
Gene’s hair
I never thought that would be a headline for one of my posts. 
So you are saying Gene would have to be pestered enough to post those pictures?
That would mean he has some reluctance. Gene doesn’t strike me as that kind of person. He seems far too laid back to be embarrassed about some hairdos from the past.
[QUOTE=The Xia;709849]Video student or not I doubt Wing Lam told this guy that he is ready to teach. His look makes it far worse. People like that give a bad name to Kung Fu. Sifu Wing Lam may want to take a look at these videos.[/QUOTE]
I seriously doubt Sifu Wing Lam is concerned about one guy banging out lackluster performances. As a teacher he knows the ones most eager to teach are usually the ones least qualified to do so. As a teacher who makes a living selling instructional videos I am sure he is ever prepped for the back lash of several thousand Master Lacklusters…
The Vagabond ain’t that good but really he ain’t that bad either. I have seen worse and that was not pretty. The sequences are well connected even though they lack dynamic. He is a suitable candidate to introduce someone who might normally be intimidated by the raw power of gung fu to the gentle practice of Chinese Martial art. As far as giving gung fu a bad name, too late. Because of the secretive nature of it’s practice the best Masters were never seen so only low level people were seen until recently. Ask any karate dude and they will tell you "oh it’s real pretty but lacks any real power, etc, etc… So this cat is not a one man plague on the good name of gung fu. It is our job as traditional practitioners to show people through our actions, practice and promotion what real gung fu looks like and what it is all about.
All of you move away from your keyboard and go perfect your basic!!!
Peace
Lokhopkuen
Ask yourself this in all honesty. Put yourself in the place of an educated prospective student, would you want him as your sifu?
As for my “bad name” comment, it’s not just only about his skill, it’s also about his outfit and doo. He isnt Chinese and its not the Ching Dynasty. Are you saying this look should be welcomed amongst TCMA practitioners?
I imagine since he was shooting a video perhaps his costume was an attempt to create a feeling of time and place. Kindda reminds me of this guy:
http://users.aol.com/beishaolin/index.html
As far as would I want him as a teacher? I feel finding a teacher is an act of fate, that the spirits of martial energy will guide a sincere student and a dedicated teacher to one another so they might learn things from one another. All teachers start out as something and grow from there. I don’t think even the greatest master you ever heard of was a gifted teacher from the start. He slowly developed into one. Same with students, you don’t get dedicated ones, You develop them over time. Teaching is about sharing your experiences and more importantly as a developing senior martial artist it is an opportunity to experience the various human archetypes. From the teaching experience you learn to KNOW OTHERS. The developmental years of a martial artist it is about understanding through the experience of SELF. Learning self, controlling self, getting comfortable chilling in your dope a s s e d luxury vehicle.
The book of war states knowing self and knowing others in a thousand battles you will never be defeated or something of that nature. I feel I was lucky that Vagabond was not destined to be my teacher. I do however commend him on his courage to perform the demanding practice sets of Bak Siu Lum and humbly submit his efforts as a reference in a public media forum opening himself to the sometimes viscous critiques of peoples from the internet. Just from the few vids I have posted on my website I have been accused of altering the form to make it “flashy” that perhaps we are “wushuy” and have surly “watered down the pristine nature of the system” and most certainly had stumbled down the slippery slope to punk a s s, wack a s s gung fu of the flowery fist+ legs of brocade category. On and on and on it goes! I perform as I was taught and do the best I can each time I get the chance to be seen.
IMHO I feel there are far too few representative examples of the Northern Shaolim style on video for the public access. Secretive teaching practices almost rendered the style extinct if it were not for the open teachings of people like Lung Kai Ming, Wong Jack Man, Wing Lam, Chen Kwock Wei and Kenneth Hui. So maybe just maybe when some nice guys decides to share his video record of his practice efforts we could encourage him gently in a positive manner rather than yelling as loud as we can type [SIZE=“5”]YOU SUCK!!![/SIZE]
Just a thought…
Peace
[QUOTE=The Xia;713657]Ask yourself this in all honesty. Put yourself in the place of an educated prospective student, would you want him as your sifu?
As for my “bad name” comment, it’s not just only about his skill, it’s also about his outfit and doo. He isnt Chinese and its not the Ching Dynasty. Are you saying this look should be welcomed amongst TCMA practitioners?[/QUOTE]
oh man, you should see whatt hey think is “pek sil lum” in the UK.
sorry no linky, but someone put up some vids of what’s considered to be genuine over there and frankly, it looked even worse than que boy there.
Mind you, I think the chinese purposefully give britains the wrong teachings as revenge for the opium wars thing and the whole occupation etc etc.
Now I have a question related to martial performance theater;
Do you think it ethical for a teacher of traditional Chinese martial art who is not Chinese to represent himself as Chinese? By this I mean affecting a heavy accent mainly in a phone answering message, making “cosmetic” adjustments to the eyes, growing long hair and braiding it into a cue… Interesting enough I have known asian teachers who speak unaccented english to affect a heavy ‘asian’ accent around students to create the ASIAN MYSTIQUE. I don’t know if this helps their business but it is fun to watch.
Peace:D
very true
"oh man, you should see whatt hey think is “pek sil lum” in the UK.
sorry no linky, but someone put up some vids of what’s considered to be genuine over there and frankly, it looked even worse than que boy there.
Mind you, I think the chinese purposefully give britains the wrong teachings as revenge for the opium wars thing and the whole occupation etc etc. "
thats very true
there are only like 20 proper kung fu schools in the whole country the rest is crap
but u have to remember the uk is smaller than alot of us states
imitation of cultural stuff is in the category of delusion as far as Im concerned.
It’s one thing to appreciate and seek understanding of another culture and it’s treasures, but it’s another thing entirely to make believe, play pretend and so on.
typically, people who do this kind of stuff have a bit of a screw loose in my opinion. Even moreso if after many years of doing this they still haven’t undertaken to actually even learn the language or actual histories etc and sit in their bubble of wannabe chinese. ridiculous and all too common sadly.
I’ll just have the kungfu please, hold the white rice.
It’s like a mini-reunion for me. Good to see LokHopKuen, Gene, Ravenshaw, David and others here. Guess I’ll be visiting the Shaolin forum a little more often.
As a long time Hung Gar guy from Wing Lam Kung Fu, I can’t speak to the “signature” movements in the videos but I can speak towards Sifu’s attitude towards people who have learned from video and start to teach.
Overall, he is ambivalent. As been mentioned, he is not the first and he won’t be the last. Hopefully, he has not decieved his students but even so, it’s caveat emptor. Sifu doesn’t feel he has a right let alone a need to control what these people can and can not do simply because they bought a tape or attended a seminar.
As Ravenshaw mentioned, anyone who has spent significant time learning from Sifu will quickly realize that teaching to his standard is a tall order and one would like his blessing before starting down a path. I too, fall into this category. When I instructed at WLKF, I was a SiHing and not the Sifu.
On the otherhand, I’ve met 100s of people who have opened their school before ever meeting Sifu. At least the people I’ve met took the effort to visit in person and get corrections. I go back to my long time lineage rant. Lineage is not a measure of how good someone is. It’s a measure of how good the should be. It means you have something to measure them against.
Finally, does this guy hurt kung fu? Maybe, Maybe not. It certainly could hurt his students if they don’t look beyond their kwoon. One thing I always appreciated about Sifu was his encouragement for us to examine what we do against others. But on the flip side, his efforts could spark an interest in someone who will go and seek out the real deal.
I’m reminded of a distant student who would fully admit he is not “master” level but has opened up a school. He produces good hardworking students several of the students have visited sifu for direct lessons. He is clear that he is passing on what he has learned and encourages students that want more to seek it out. This is good for kung fu.
There has only been one person that Sifu has actively made an effort to set the record straight. Mainly, because he deceived Sifu’s teacher and misrepresented himself to Sigung. Anyone who knows me knows who this is and I won’t go into it since it’s old news.
[QUOTE=Lokhopkuen;713729]So maybe just maybe when some nice guys decides to share his video record of his practice efforts we could encourage him gently in a positive manner rather than yelling as loud as we can type [SIZE=“5”]YOU SUCK!!![/SIZE]
Just a thought…
Peace[/QUOTE]
I’m one of the nicest guys in the world when it comes to students practicing in earnest. I’m willing to give them a lot of time no matter what their level is, which showed, I think, in the kids’ classes I coached at the WL school and my current efforts on the WL forums.
My criticisms for this guy go far beyond his beginner level.
I’ve missed you on my last couple visits to the kwoon. I’ll catch you one of these times…
Anyway, I find I’m more troubled by this guy than the others you’ve mentioned with the exception of the aforementioned “old news.” Ugh.
He’s just not in a position to accept students, no matter how you cut it. He’d do better to share the instructional vids with them and practice together than dress up and make them call him “sifu.”
As for Sifu’s ambivalence… well, you know Sifu.
A question for the Wing Lam disciples here.
How does your sifu run his kwoon? Hung Gar and Bak Siu Lam are an interesting combination. I’m interested to hear how Wing Lam teaches them together. Also, what aspects of both arts work well together for you?
A question for the Wing Lam disciples here.
How does your sifu run his kwoon? Hung Gar and Bak Siu Lam are an interesting combination. I’m interested to hear how Wing Lam teaches them together. Also, what aspects of both arts work well together for you?
We had separate HG and BSL (and internal) programs. For example, Gene and I taught in the BSL class at one time or another and hasayfu taught in the HG class. Since they were on different nights, few people cross-trained except for senior students, who might learn a set from a different style on occasion. Hasayfu learned the BSL broadsword set and both he and I know some Xing Yi, etc. Hasayfu has been a student for much longer, so he has a broader pallette than I.
For the most part, though, students stuck to one style. Sifu Wing Lam is an advocate of cross-training, but not until you’re solid in one style first.
As of January, he got rid of all the individual programs and now only has one class, which he teaches personally, so there are no more intructors under him. I moved away for college shortly before that happened, but hasayfu is still there and he can provide more information. I think he’s teaching HG Tiger and Crane now.
back in the day…
Lam Sifu used to keep HG and BSL quite separate. Most of the senior students, like me, RS & HSF, did some cross training, but we still had our root style. Personally, I can’t remember any of the HG Lam Sifu taught me. A long time ago, he kept the tai chi completely separate too. In fact, he used to charge extra to teach it. But he was younger then and wasn’t into it so much.
Now Sifu Lam is in a position to retire, something he’s been fantasizing about for years. So he’s cut back his classes down to one intimate group class, and they all focus on one form for several months. He’s changed his import business to include garden stone, like stone buddhas and pagodas, and recently I heard that he’s moved into selling crystals and such. I can’t say I blame him. Anyone who’s been in the martial arts biz for long enough eventaully sees that it’s more profitable to move into other markets. I don’t think Sifu Lam is ready to ‘wash his hands in the gold basin’ yet. I think he has a loyal core of students that keep him teaching. But he was never that attached to teaching. Left to his own, I think he would much prefer just to practice alone, and maybe fish.
I should note that to the best of my knowledge none of us (me, RS & HSF) are disciples of Sifu Lam. He hasn’t taken many disciples. We were all just instructors under him.
~G
Your last sentence brings to mind a question that I’ve been meaning to ask.
Can a layman take disciples? Or would they be more of an apprentice. or am I just being a language twit?
DJ, what do you mean by “layman?” Non-disciple?
Wow, Gene. Didn’t know you kept up so well with the old school.
[QUOTE=GeneChing;714753]I should note that to the best of my knowledge none of us (me, RS & HSF) are disciples of Sifu Lam. He hasn’t taken many disciples. We were all just instructors under him.[/QUOTE]
This is correct. I only know of one “disciple.” I was just another of his students.
layman is way out of context
The dictionary definition of layman means that they are either not professional or not of the clergy. In the martial arts and in zen, we talk about layman disciples, who are disciples of a monk, but do not become monks. In the martial arts, you can be a disciple of any master, whether they are a monk or not. Sifu Wing Lam is not a monk at all, but he’s taken at least one disciple. Most masters take disciples and few masters are monks. The layman factor doesn’t really enter into it if they’re not monks. So, for example, any of us could take disciples. Only a monk can take a monk disciple or a layman disciple. As a layman disciple myself, I could take disciples, but the layman factor doesn’t enter into it.
I think Chet Braun is Wing Lam’s only disciple, but I know there were some others that were interested in baisee-ing to our Sifu, notably some of his students in Italy or Bermuda or something. I never followed up to see if that happened.