Shaolin Vagabond Guy

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Shaolin Kung Fu
41

Well, I can’t speak for your Sifu’s tapes at all, and it isn’t my intention to do so. I used to own a set of James McNiel’s Hsing-i tapes because he is from the same lineage as my teacher. On the tapes he would say things like, “Be proud! You are learning Hsing-i!” I owned two John Painter tapes at one time, and on those tapes he said, “Once you have learned this set, you can move on to the next tape.” George Xu tapes said things like, “Follow along with these movements until you’ve mastered the form.” I currently own a set of Aikido for Police tapes, and the instructor constantly states that cops should watch the tapes and practice with thier partners.

I have never seen an instructional video that said, “We’re just demonstrating… you can’t learn from these tapes.” I mean what would be the point, right? Who’s going to buy instructional tapes when they are told they can’t learn from them?

I’ll bet when you told the people at the store they couldn’t learn from your tapes they didn’t buy them right?

My point is that for those teachers who don’t want to see thier arts being hijacked by fakers, they shouldn’t be putting the tapes out in the first place. If they do, and they are implying or outright stating that someone CAN learn from the tapes, then maybe they are part of the problem.

42

tht guy sucks

no joke you cn see what i commented i’m kungfufreddy on there he is truly awful did nyone see the iron shirt demo with him nd a cut waxwood staff he gives white people an even worse reputation
DISGRACEFUL

43

I’ve made more or less the same argument before samurai jack.

It’s not so much that you can’t learn from tapes because you can.
The problem comes when someone learns from tapes, then hones in on claims of representing the style without meeting the criteria to be a representative of the style.

In other words, it’s ok to learn em and practice em and show em, but to say that you are representative of a style based off of what you actually have is where it get’s people’s goats.

Beginners in general for the most part and in my experience do not grasp the teachings in tape form. And tapes often have little to say about refined details such as where to issue force, the structure and breathing of each combination within a set, several of the variative applications etc etc etc.

For someone who has spent a few years studying a decent martial art, I think they would surmise a lot of that stuff and would have an easier go of it. they would get the simple concepts such as expelling breath when striking and consuming breath when readying, mechanical structure and how it optimizes force issuance and so on. These are things that get worked on with regular opractice and foundational schooling in a given martial art and can be mapped onto other martial arts.

forms can also show us a technique that may be performed incorrectly, but because you may know correct mechanics and kinesiology, you could self correct the same technique when you do it.

But I don’t think that people who release tapes and instructional videos to “expect” to get what is tantamount to stolen from and usurped in what they offer. It is not the fault of someone to spread Kungfu, if there is any blame it is in those people with incorrect intention with what they are going to do with whatever forms they have learned or taugfht themselves using video and self instruction only.

when it’s(self instruction from other media) combined with the oral transmission tradition, the result is different and the non-direct media is an excellent resource to learn new things from both in a down to earth sense and in an artistic expression sense not to mention cultivation and healthful practice.

after all, why is it valid to learn for real techniques from a sbg dvd set and not from traditional format instruction. Different approaches to the same thing. And addressing different types of learners and their needs.

44

Videos serve a purpose.

They are, however, a reference tool.

Much like, when you learn German, you own and use a German/English dictionary. The dictionary itself does not teach anything. It simply allows you to doublecheck your current skillset.

45

Some people are just having fun.

We have a local Chinese church and culture center. They both have Tai Chi classes. The teachers are from Beijing Wushu team and one year national champ.

There are some lessons for young and old. There are no classics or fighting apps etc. Only the basic exercises, short forms, and basic push hands and breathing exercises.

My point is that a teach has to be clear on his or her background. not claiming a lineage if he or she does not have one.

Both Tai Chi teachers SAID that they are “schooled” from Wushu academy and they are only familiar or formerly trained with the school material etc.

On hair do;

some people are very serious about that. and yet some are just having fun.

In Qing era, if you lose your pony tail, it is a seditious offense and punished by losing your head.

–

:smiley:

46

di you ever think…

[QUOTE=Wood Dragon;709460]Videos serve a purpose.

They are, however, a reference tool.

Much like, when you learn German, you own and use a German/English dictionary. The dictionary itself does not teach anything. It simply allows you to doublecheck your current skillset.[/QUOTE]that this is actual what the purpose of this tape was for?demonstration and as a teaching aid to his students??and not a performance ..per se???

47

[QUOTE=Wood Dragon;709460]Videos serve a purpose.

They are, however, a reference tool.

Much like, when you learn German, you own and use a German/English dictionary. The dictionary itself does not teach anything. It simply allows you to doublecheck your current skillset.[/QUOTE]

I’ve learned a sh1t load of stuff from videos. And books.

Just last night I was wacthing Bas Ruten’s Big Book of Combat and he has a lot of techniques on there I had never thought of, and I’ll probably try using a few of them after I watch it a couple of more times.

I use Ross’ San Da training DVDs to pick up lots of details about, well, quite a lot of things, actually.

I watch, I use, I adjust, I watch, I use, I adjust, etc…

Inversely, I tried learning a little Chinese from an audio CD series, but I could never make it stick because I didn’t have anyone to use it with. So, I can count and cuss, but that’s about it.

48

[QUOTE=Wood Dragon;709460]Videos serve a purpose.

They are, however, a reference tool.

Much like, when you learn German, you own and use a German/English dictionary. The dictionary itself does not teach anything. It simply allows you to doublecheck your current skillset.[/QUOTE]

I dunno about that. You can learn brand new stuff and apply it. language instruction and body mechanics/fighting instruction aren’t really comparable in context. I would also add that clear instruction is relevanty as well.

49

[QUOTE=Samurai Jack;709408]
I guess it’s a matter of priorities. Still, when you put out instructional videos, aren’t you pretty much saying “You can learn from this video?” [/QUOTE]
Yes, you are. And yes, you can learn from them. But what you learn from them will be heavily based on what you were building on. If you have cr@p to start with…:rolleyes:

I mean, an ethical teacher wouldn’t sell an instructional video that he felt people couldn’t learn from, right? And if you are going there, then why is it unreasonable to assume that if the video student has “learned it” that he can’t “teach it?”

I learned some geography in high school. Maybe I should go teach it now. And if I get anything wrong… well I never gat anything wrong. The teachers who actually have degrees, talent, and experience in teaching are misrepresenting the concepts or they are jealous, right?:eek: :rolleyes:

50

same dude doing bot bo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhN37BWCU6c

51

this is where people are saying he learned it i think.

Lien bu quan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dndU6SzYAE4

bot bo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuJ7U28Rmvw

dunno though.

52

street fighter

You are StreetFighter89 on youtube? If so, way to give it to em!

This guy’s look and skill give kung fu a terrible name.

53

[QUOTE=Ravenshaw;709403]I’ve commented on some of this guy’s videos.

Not only is he a beginner, he clearly learned those sets from my teacher’s bak siu lum video tapes. He mimics some of the idiosyncracies found in those tapes. I wonder if brother Gene would come to the same conclusion.

A person of this skill who learned from videos… teaching? I’m offended for my school, the bak siu lum system, and martial arts as a whole. We don’t need more poseur “masters” giving everyone a bad name. :mad:[/QUOTE]
Is your sifu Wing Lam? You may want to tell him about this guy.

54

[QUOTE=SPJ;709465]On hair do;

some people are very serious about that. and yet some are just having fun.

In Qing era, if you lose your pony tail, it is a seditious offense and punished by losing your head.

–

:D[/QUOTE]
This isn’t the Ching Dynasty and he isn’t Chinese…
Dressing like that because you do Kung Fu is akin to dressing like a Roman Senator because you take a Latin class.

55

no, sorry to disappoint. i am familiar with these forms though. although at my old school we did them a little bit differently than they do on the video this guy learned them from. he seems a little stiffer in his movements but i enjoy watching it bc the differences make it interesting.
as for the guy in the silly outfit i really thought he was just a beginner and thought it wasn’t a bad try and thought it was cool that he would put himself out there but then i heard someone say he was a sifu. i then started banging my face on my keyboard. not a rational response but whatever. this guys form is crap. even if it is supposed to be slow and deliberate for educational purposes. just absolute garbage.

56

We have the side steps, but the strike in our set is a hammer fist. Also, we do the elbow strikes in bow stances and not a horse stance.

[QUOTE=Samurai Jack;709438]I’ll bet when you told the people at the store they couldn’t learn from your tapes they didn’t buy them right?[/QUOTE]

Well, I told them learning from the tapes did not make them qualified to teach, which is different from telling them they can’t learn. As a few people on this forum pointed out, people can learn things from videos. But learning doesn’t automatically qualify the student to teach what he has learned.

Yes. I’ll bring it up on my next visit. I’m at college and not near the school anymore.

57

[QUOTE=Ravenshaw;709564]… As a few people on this forum pointed out, people can learn things from videos. But learning doesn’t automatically qualify the student to teach what he has learned…[/QUOTE]
It’s a free country. You can teach what you learn if you can find some chump who actually wants to learn it… Also doesn’t mean you’ve actually learned what the teacher was teaching.

It looked to me like he is a great mimic. But didn’t really have any idea that all those pretty movements are not the Chinese version of River Dance. Lack of intent or understanding of the move is what is most obvious to me.

58

[QUOTE=MasterKiller;709470]I’ve learned a sh1t load of stuff from videos. And books.

Just last night I was wacthing Bas Ruten’s Big Book of Combat and he has a lot of techniques on there I had never thought of, and I’ll probably try using a few of them after I watch it a couple of more times.

I use Ross’ San Da training DVDs to pick up lots of details about, well, quite a lot of things, actually.

I watch, I use, I adjust, I watch, I use, I adjust, etc…

Inversely, I tried learning a little Chinese from an audio CD series, but I could never make it stick because I didn’t have anyone to use it with. So, I can count and cuss, but that’s about it.[/QUOTE]

My post was in reference to “Form/Kata” videos. Techniques and training tips are, obviously, another story.

59

There are many sifus that don’t take kindly to those that rip off of them.

60

This reminds me of the movie bullet proof monk. Where chow yun fat asks sean william scott where did he learn his kung fu? And Scott doesn’t tell but Fat later learns that Scott learned from watching the kung fu cinemas at the theater.