i’d like to see something about the series of salutes, so i’d get an idea of what you’re talking about. its been discussed before, but doesnt sound familiar.[/QUOTE]
has anyone got any ideas on what was the first of these rou quan or internal sets, i am lead to believe the luohan shi san gong was first but not entirely sure ? i am also curious as to why the luohan shi san gong set starts facing the opposite way? was there another set originally done prior to this?
[QUOTE=wuseng33;956697]has anyone got any ideas on what was the first of these rou quan or internal sets, i am lead to believe the luohan shi san gong was first but not entirely sure ? i am also curious as to why the luohan shi san gong set starts facing the opposite way? was there another set originally done prior to this?[/QUOTE]
hmm, it appears that the Liu He Gong and the Chan Yuan Gong were more simple and prototypical in movement to the Luohan 13 Gong set.
What do you mean the Luohan 13 Gong starts facing the opposite way?
I dont think it starts with your back to the audience.
What it does, like all Shaolin sets that are very much like Taiji Quan, is that it moves to the right first, whereas most Shaolin sets move to the left first.
These Shaolin sets: TZ Chang Quan 32, Rou Quan 36 Yi lu and er lu, Xiao and Da Hong Quan, Jingang Quan, Luohan 13 Gong ALL immediately go to the right and they all star with the same opening movements, as does the Chen Taijian Yi Lu set.
Most other sets in Shaolin, such as the Luohan sets, and so on, start moving to the left side first.
As you said the Lohan 13 gong moves to the right (or starts facing the opposite way compared to other typical shaolin forms) why is this for these early forms? when they all go to the left now? or as my initial thought was maybe the set had something else that led into the lohan 13 gong? just find it interesting why these are differnt and for what reason?
Well, one thing is that you can date the sets by seeing what direction it moves in first.
The ancient Big Vast Fist style that I have been talking about in the other thread is the main original root to many of the oldest Shaolin sets and it too moves to the right first.
Just about every post-luohan quan set that Shaolin has starts to the left.
Just about every set that is related to Chang Quan or Hong Quan in any way (Pao Quan, Tongbi Quan, Rou Quan, etc) starts to the right. Ancient sets were based on drills, and drills were done right side first and then left side (because most people were righty)
It’s the Luohan sets at Shaolin that started the moving to the left first, with left hand guarding and attacking first.
Some think that is because this was done in honor of Huike, who chopped off his right arm to show his sincerity to Bodhidharma so that he would be accepted as his pupil.
Here’s a set that is tought at the Liu borthers school in Tagou Dengfeng.
The Shaolin Rou Xing Chui - Shaolin Supple Shaped Hammers
Supposedly this set was the one that was demonstrated to the Tang Emperor by a Shaolin Monk when they were celebrating the 13 Monks that helped the new Emperor get into power.
28 Shaolin Soft Shape Hammers (28 Postures)
1 - Hu Bao Tou - Tiger Wraps Head
2 - Bai Yuan Xian Guo - White Ape Offers Fruit
3 - Ban Lan Chui - Shift (Swing) Block (Deflect) Hammer
4 - E` Hu Pu Shi - Hungry Tiger Pounces on Prey
5 - Hui Shou Chui - Returning Hand Hammer
6 - Qing Long Zhua - Green Dragn Offers Claws
7 - Xie Xing Chui - Slanting Shaped Hammer
8 - Jin Ji Shang Jie - Golden Rooster Ascends Shelf
9 - Pi Za Chui - Spliting & Smashing Hammer
10 - Bai He Liang Qi - White Crane Spreads (Flashes) Wings
11 - Lian Huan Chui (Linking Hammers)
12 - Hei Xiong Liang Zhang - Black Bear Shows Palms
13 - Hang Di Chui - Pile-drive Ground Hammer
14 - Li Mao Shang Shu - Leopard Cat Ascends Tree
15 - Tao Xin Chui - Fishout Heart Hammer
16 - Mei Lu Wo Zhen - Plumflower Deer Lies on Pillow
17 - Zhui Feng Chui - Chase Wind Hammer
18 - Yao-zi Fan Shen - Sparrowhawk Flips Body
19 - Pu Tou Chui - Protect Head Hammer
20 - Du Shi Tu Xin - Poison Snake Spits out Letter
21 - Da Zhuang Chui - Strike Stump Hammer
22 - Xiong Ying Zhan Wang - Heroic Eagle (Hawk) Unfolds Towards
23 - Chong Tian Chui - Rush Sky Hammer
24 - Ye Ma Xian Ti - Wild Horse Lifts Hoof
25 - Heng Chui - Horizontal Sweeping Hammer
26 - Shi-zi Wu Hua - Lion Dancing Flower
27 - Ji Gu Chui - Beat Drum Hammer
28 - Hu Bao Tou - Tiger Wraps Head (repeat in reverse)
Starting with posture 28 you can do the whole set in reverse side.
[QUOTE=Sal Canzonieri;956972]Ruo is pinyin for Supple or Soft (not Rui, there is no word “rui”).
(Just friendly corrections, not trying to be snobby)[/QUOTE]
actually its “rou” (). “ruo” might be , meaning “weak”.
and “rui” can be , meaning “auspicious”.
so unless he means lindsay lohan creating a set called “lohan (family) auspicious boxing”, then it should probably be “luohan rouquan”. but you already know that.
(just friendly corrections, not trying to be snobby)
[QUOTE=LFJ;956980]actually its “rou” (). “ruo” might be , meaning “weak”.
and “rui” can be , meaning “auspicious”.
so unless he means lindsay lohan creating a set called “lohan (family) auspicious boxing”, then it should probably be “luohan rouquan”. but you already know that.
(just friendly corrections, not trying to be snobby) :p[/QUOTE]
HAHAH! How stupid of me! It is Rou, sorry. I made a typo (that I do often too!)
That’s what I get for trying to correct people, darn.
Rui, yeah, he most likely means Auspicious. Since Luohan would be auspicous.
Well, regardless, I’ve never seen that set he did.
M Zhu is an example of the power of many of the folk masters around Shaolin. As I’ve said so many times before, everyone fixates on the monks, but few look at the folk masters. The folk masters kept traditional Shaolin alive. If you look at Shaolin Kung Fu 2000, you’ll see GM Zhu’s demo team, which is pretty much wushu. The team isn’t even monks. They’re just some star kids from his school. Zhu isn’t a monk. He’s a laymen disciple like me. When people say that the traditional is all gone from Shaolin, they just don’t know.
****, this guy came through Ohio (in '99 I think) with his demo team and I didn’t know who he was. The Wah Lum guys were claiming these were real monks from the Shaolin Temple, but all I saw was some modern wushu demos (nothing different than what I was learning). So I just thought it was just some more amateur modern wushu guys scamming Wah Lum I went to their seminar and all they taught was a series of single line drills from some non-shaolin systems (baji, pigua, and xingyi). Zhu demoed some pretty basic taiji quan, but that’s it. Not that I probably would have known what to do about it as a teenager, but it’s kind of weird to have had a real Shaolin expert within a few feet of me here in Ohio at the time and have had no idea, lol.
[QUOTE=B-Rad;957348]****, this guy came through Ohio (in '99 I think) with his demo team and I didn’t know who he was. The Wah Lum guys were claiming these were real monks from the Shaolin Temple, but all I saw was some modern wushu demos (nothing different than what I was learning). So I just thought it was just some more amateur modern wushu guys scamming Wah Lum I went to their seminar and all they taught was a series of single line drills from some non-shaolin systems (baji, pigua, and xingyi). Zhu demoed some pretty basic taiji quan, but that’s it. Not that I probably would have known what to do about it as a teenager, but it’s kind of weird to have had a real Shaolin expert within a few feet of me here in Ohio at the time and have had no idea, lol.[/QUOTE]
Are you sure it was Zhu Tian Xi? I thought he wasn’t in the US til 2000?
I just read his book and he said he was in the US in 2000.
Also, I doubt he was doing Taiji Quan. He must likely was doing some internal Shaolin like Chan Quan or Rou Quan. He’s a Shaolin Rou Quan and Luohan Quan master, as well as a Taizu Quan master. I don’t think he ever needed to do Taiji Quan since he already doing the stuff it is based on.
Prior to S.F. Bay Area visit, they performed five shows at the Arnold Schwarzenegger Classic in Columbus, OH. That was developed by Chan Pui, Jeff Naayers, John Leong, Huang Chien Long and Lily Lau.
Shaolin Kungfu 2000 was comprised of six boys and one girl, all students of GM Zhu’s school. That’s pretty impressive when you consider that those kids put on a long non-stop show and most performance troupes, whether they be monks or wushu champs, carry a team 3 to 6 times that size. They were all modern wushu performers, not monks at all, but the boys did shave their heads and wear robes. Gm Zhu was very clear about them not being monks and so were we when we held the performance (however there was one slip up by our MC who called the smallest boy a “little monk” at one point). That distinction might have been distorted in OH because the Arnold has a political aspect (as in real politics, now Governor of California politics, not just your run-of-the-mill politics in any circle of humans). The team met Arnold apparently, along with Ronald McDonald and the Mayor of Columbus. They were also given customized leather jackets from Arnold’s personal tailor, which just goes to show. If they thought they were Buddhist monks, a leather gift would have been horridly insensitive. But then again, this is the Governator we’re talking about. :rolleyes:
Also, I doubt he was doing Taiji Quan. He must likely was doing some internal Shaolin like Chan Quan or Rou Quan. He’s a Shaolin Rou Quan and Luohan Quan master, as well as a Taizu Quan master. I don’t think he ever needed to do Taiji Quan since he already doing the stuff it is based on.
Sorry, it was 2000. I remember now because it was the year I tore my ACL It wasn’t part of the official performance or anything, basically at the seminar he did some taiji quan with the older folk. Looked like standard taiji quan (24 form, or one of the related forms, I’m pretty sure I recognized the sequence). I suppose it could’ve been Rou Quan and my memory is fuzzy, since I didn’t even know Rou Quan existed. Or they could’ve been showing him some Wah Lum taiji and he joined in. The guy seemed was pretty friendly I missed their actual demo performance.
Gm Zhu was very clear about them not being monks and so were we when we held the performance (however there was one slip up by our MC who called the smallest boy a “little monk” at one point). That distinction might have been distorted in OH because the Arnold has a political aspect (as in real politics, now Governor of California politics, not just your run-of-the-mill politics in any circle of humans). The team met Arnold apparently, along with Ronald McDonald and the Mayor of Columbus.
GM Zhu may have been clear about it, but the Wah Lum people DEFINITELY weren’t. Was flat out told by Jeff Naayers and everyone else in Wah Lum that they were actual monks from the Shaolin Temple
Most of them were actually too young. Two of the males were of age, maybe four, hard to say… I probably have their exact details somewhere. Technically speaking, you can’t become a ‘shaolin monk’ until your over 18. Before that, you are considered a shami which is a class of child initiates.
Zhu Tianxi is not a monk. He’s a layman disciple (like me ;)). Zhu is a disciple of Shi Degen, and bears the Shaolin name Xingzhen.
