Here, we can see the members of the SEA, ok, just european countries are there, obvious, but… in Spain, for example, there is just 1 “school” ( http://www.shaolinspain.com/ ), of a Shi De Yang’s disciple (Bruno Tombolato). But there’s another school in Spain ( http://shaolin-wuxing.com/ ) of a Shi Heng Jun’s disciple, and well, i don’t know why the SEA doesn’t consider that SHJ school as an official member… (i don’t know why the word “money” comes to my mind )
And well… Shaolin Association of North America… what is that? i’ve never heard / read about that before
If you people can enlight me with your knowledge… Maybe i’m just being ignorant and i’m asking stupid things but… well… i just want to know
Well, it does say you have to apply for membership. Maybe that school isn’t all that interested and hasn’t applied. If they’re doing alright by themselves, I don’t blame them.
“Shaolin Temple Spain es el único Centro en España reconocido por el Templo
de Shaolin en China, bajo la supervisión del maestro Shi Heng Jun, y bajo la
bendición del patriarca Shi Yong Xing y el Abad Shi Yan Fo.”
If you don’t know spanish let me translate you the last part:
“...with the blessings of Patriarch Shi Yong Shin and the abbot Shi Yan Fo”
Well, one is “with the blessing” and the other is “certified”. Obviously only one is a member of the SEA.
However, I’ve seen Bruno previously studying under Shi Miaozhi- disciple of Shi Hengjun who was an instructor at that other school in Madrid at the time. Only in the last couple years has Bruno begun visiting Shi Deyang’s school in China, and through help of Deyang’s translator he has been able to invite him to Spain.
So basically, it seems the two schools have the same background (Hengjun lineage), and recently Bruno has sought out Deyang. That’s about all I’ve observed though. I have no experience with either school.
Well, that original SANA was put together when the Abbot was here last in conjunction with the summit in 2011. There hasn’t been much going on except for the festival coming up this October.
Officially , now , Shi YanXu has been more of a key player as he was always very close to the Abbot as he was one of his former assistants. Shi Yan Xu also runs the the Shaolin Temple Cultural Centers of America in Southern California. Shi YanXu also has standardized the forms for belt testing and will implement that at the festival in October for other Shaolin schools as well.
The North American Shaolin Federation was formed in 2011to unify North America Shaolin schools and to promote the camaraderie of Shaolin students, masters and the Shaolin culture as a whole in North America. Basically , the Abbot wanted to unify all of the Shaolin schools and traditionalize the forms based according to the books that were donated to the USA library of Congress.
Those 3 books that were donated are : Qigong, Shaolin Medicine and Shaolin Kung Fu.
(Yes I have seen them with my own eyes as well. I thought I was looking into Pandora’s box :eek: )
I’ve been Yan Xu’s student for about 3 years (unfortunately he doesn’t teach anymore the public anymore). I can vouch that there definitely is a Shaolin culture that is deeply rooted in the 3 gems of Shaolin which are exactly - Shaolin medicine, Chan Buddhism, shaolin Kung Fu (inclusive of Qigong BaduanJiun and YijinJiing) . All those 3 aspects are the core of Shaolin.
[QUOTE=ShaolinDiva;1233094]Shi YanXu also has standardized the forms for belt testing and will implement that at the festival in October for other Shaolin McWuguan’s* as well.[/QUOTE]
:rolleyes:
If you can’t test someone on their kung fu because the form is different than the way you do it, you don’t have a very good understanding of kung fu. Standardizing the forms also tells me you don’t care about traditional Shaolin and all it’s variations.
Standardization will be the death of what makes Shaolin useful.
In Spain at the moment there are big arguments between the aforementioned schools about who is “legit” … which itself makes no sense at all …
LFJ is right, Bruno Tombolato is not a disciple of Master Shi Deyang, he has been studying with him for a just couple of years and has invited him twice to teach in Spain as far as I saw advertised in Europe; before that he was studying with various Fawang teachers, both chinese and spanish.
So all the arguing spanish Shaolin schools have a common Hengjun lineage yet they are all arguing to be the “legit” one … :rolleyes:
If you can’t test someone on their kung fu because the form is different than the way you do it, you don’t have a very good understanding of kung fu. Standardizing the forms also tells me you don’t care about traditional Shaolin and all it’s variations.
Standardization will be the death of what makes Shaolin useful.[/QUOTE]
First of all, you don’t know me and what my knowledge of Shaolin , kung fu or martial arts at all except for some of my words that you already misconstrued.
I personally do not agree with belt testing. From a personal side note- these decisions that were made were very difficult and in conjunction with the Abbot and our temple. Most shifus/masters do not truly like it but they also see the implementation of testing makes the students also challenge themselves.
That being said, everybody knows that in Asia , belt testing is not necessary and definitely an American product .
It isn’t like they give the belts away either- kids do cry if they don’t pass. They must memorize and recite the names of each of the individual movements within the form in CHINESE (which isn’t easy for nonspeaking chinese) as they are doing the form. They meditate, do the horse stance for whatever amount of time based on whatever level you’re testing for.
It isn’t as easy as you may think. and don’t’ judge until you’ve been in somebody else’s shoes. Its ok to give your opinion if you experienced it or even have seen it personally within your eyes but you’re making ASSumptions based on a few words.
Is the Shaolin Association of North America the same or connected to the North American Shaolin Federation? Is there a website for either org? I seem to remember a website for SANA, and I could have sworn we posted it on one of the SANA-related threads here, but I wasn’t able to find it on a cursory search.
As for standardization, it’s difficult to test with out that. Unless we rebuild a wooden man hall.
[QUOTE=ShaolinDiva;1233248]
That being said, everybody knows that in Asia , belt testing is not necessary and definitely an American product .
[/QUOTE]
Nope.
If that were true, then why do traditional Western martial arts not do belt testing?
Have to give them something to aspire towards that is attainable within a reasonable timeframe to keep their attention.[/QUOTE]
I started training taekwondo when I was 7 and stopped when I went to uni. Trained 5 to 6 times a week. When we tested, we sparred, we kicked the heavy bag, we did pad drills, and we broke boards. We also did forms but that was the most boring thing, done at the end, almost as a cool down from the test. We even did the “cool” forms like passai and gaebek. Kids love to mix it up and have fun.
I like learning and training taolu, but I can’t feel from one day to the next if I’m improving or not. When I spar, when I hit the bag, when I wrestle around with my friends at the gym, I know exactly where I stand. That’s why it’s “belt testing” not “belt receiving.”
[QUOTE=pazman;1233319]I started training taekwondo when I was 7 and stopped when I went to uni. Trained 5 to 6 times a week. When we tested, we sparred, we kicked the heavy bag, we did pad drills, and we broke boards. We also did forms but that was the most boring thing, done at the end, almost as a cool down from the test. We even did the “cool” forms like passai and gaebek. Kids love to mix it up and have fun.
I like learning and training taolu, but I can’t feel from one day to the next if I’m improving or not. When I spar, when I hit the bag, when I wrestle around with my friends at the gym, I know exactly where I stand. That’s why it’s “belt testing” not “belt receiving.”[/QUOTE]
Oh, I’m not trying to defend it, just wanted to frame the what i see as the reasoning behind it a little more precisely.
Well, reading everything you said before… i’ll ask this again…
Who says how “legit” is a shaolin “school”?
Why is every “shaolin school” (almost every single one) claims to be “the one and the only”? “certified by…” or “with the blessing of…” Why a “shaolin monk”* like Heng Jun in Europe or Yan Ming/Guolin in USA, for example, needs the approval of an association for “being legit”? They’re a prove themselves of a “real shaolin tradition”**
And again… i don’t know why the word “money” comes into my head
*: I wrote “shaolin monk” in quotes because i don’t have 100% clear those discipleship stuff in shaolin buddhism and that stuff, please correct me if i’m wrong
**: I wrote in quotes “shaolin tradition” because i know that’s a really controversial theme to talk about and i don’t know the details about who knows and who doesn’t about that “real shaolin tradition”. And again, please correct me if i’m wrong
)
