Sashes are better for tying people up, also for attaching to various weapons(such as making rope darts. slingshots, etc) and scaling. Also good for trainig such as blindfold, using restraining cirles to inhibit movement to practice technique and to tie two opponents together in a match.
Belts are stronger and heavier.Belts make better defensive weapons as they can catch and entangle various other weapons as they are somewht stronger.
They both have many uses. I prefer sashes. If you take your sash off, your uniform still stays on. If i am wearing the belt and gi, i am forever wrapping myself back up again. Silk is quite strong. Sashes are somewhat lighter and more versatile. However a sash is not so good for keeping a katana in place for the draw.
Gene That’s good. $4.74 for a black belt. How much is 2nd Dan?
To be honest, I totally respect belts when they respect themselves. I had kyu in Judo and Kendo (not dan, never stayed with it that long) but both of those belt systems were well organized and honorable. As for kungfu, when the school or system honors it internally that’s great. But I sell belts (obviously) so I also know the marketing end, probably better than most would want to know.
Like anything inanimate, it has meaning if you imbue it with meaning. Inanimates can symbolize anything - just study fetishism (not the sexual kind, the anthropological kind.) And far be it for me to comment too harshly on something as inocuous as a belt.
Hmmm… oh the anthropological kind, nevermind.
I was actually thinking of some kind of color ranking. The tests would still retain the same diffuculty level but instead of saying level 3 it might be yellow belt. If I did I would use those cool corded belts that wing lam sells, I think colored sashes look tacky and I don’t like karate belts. So maybe I would say yellow cord… Anyway I think since belts are so commonly known in the USA it is easier than explaining how we don’t use belt all the time and trying to explain why :rolleyes:
Gene: Those are colored belts with stripes, i.e. kyus. I don’t think the black with white stipe is a dan grade.
Are you trying to demote me?
…
I want my 2nd dan inscribed with my chinese name, which coincidentally is “Shi”. So fate has already pre-ordained me to be a monk.
I don’t know how i’m going to live with that “no killing” rule.
Now in Aikido, many sensei’s give the rank, but allow the kyus to always wear white belts in respect of a certain philosophical attitude.
It really sharpens people up in practice. You don’t have the color of the belt to help you, you have to repond to the technique and not seeing the belt color.
I never heard of dan grades wearing the white. Some bb’s do when they forget their black belt, but as a custom, i’m not sure.
Well, that’s the problem with belts. They are not universal. Beleive me, I sell them. Everyone has their own system. Some are definately traditional - other are just made up. Some use the stripes like the next step after dan. I even remember one account that used the white belt as the highest - something to do with the death association. Whatever. Anyways if your really want that belt Stumblefist, just order it. We do embroidery.
In kendo, where they wear hakama like aikido, there are kyu and dan but the are just numbers - no colors. No place to wear a belt with a hakama really, excpet maybe an obi and no one sees that usually. So it’s just rank, and it works quite well in the kendo circles because it’s still fairly contained. As martial arts spread, well, as we know there’s no way that one governing board can oversee all all the systems, so in a universal sense it makes no sense. But personally, and within a specific school, it can be very meaningful.
Belts have always been in use in the shaolin temple and in shaolin training. But for different reasons than we have them for now-a-days. Now-a-days a blackbelt means nothing except you’ve paid enough money and ran through a few forms. Belts are useless except to keep up your pants. when your training you don’t need a belt or a certificate to tell you when and how much you have improved. That was the main reason I turned away from the karate and tae kwon do schools when I was a little and apprenticed under a great master… god rest his sole.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>Now-a-days a blackbelt means nothing except you’ve paid enough money and ran through a few forms. [/quote]
maybe in other schools Lei, but not where I went and not in plenty of other schools.
They measure achievment, let younger students know who can and is qualified to help them and sets a curriculum standard in many schools.
Many schools that do not use belts do use titles.
IE: Si Dai, Si Hing, Si Fu, Si Gung, etcetera.
In our school there is a “sash” grading system which is very well defined and is clearly set out on paper for each of the 8 sash grades to black so that you know what is basically required for each.
It is therefore consistent for all students and shows a clear progression from basic techniques to more advanced. The syllabus for each new grade always retains elements of the previous grade so that a true progression is maintained.
It’s true that belts mean nothing overall - but at least in a system like this you know that whoever has the belt/sash has studied the same things as you and has achieved the same things you are trying to.
I therefore don’t see the sash as being a bad thing in this type of structured teaching system.
It becomes very bad when there is no clearly defined structure to the system and sash grades are awarded with very little apparent consistency. In this event they really do become meaningless.
I suppose the real answer I’m suggesting is that the sash is a reflection of the sifu. If the system and sifu are respected then your sash grade should be respected.
However, at the end of the day the sash means nothing unless you are true to yourself and recognise your own true level within the art you study.
“We had a thing to settle so I did him”
Tamai, 43, was quoted by Police as saying.
Phoenix eye, I was using the term belt and sash interchangably. I understand what you mean though and I do agree.
My Si Fu has specific recquirements for each Sash and also for levels of instructorship. which all fall in the Black Sash level of training.
To me personally, the “door opens” at the level of black sash, prior to this is all fundamental developement even though quite a bit of knowledge is acquired before the black sash is bestowed upon a student.
My Si Fu holds high standards and demonstrable knowledge, understanding, attitude, spirit, loyalty and skill absolutely had to be present before advancing.
I agree with what you are saying, though your school seems to be an exception. I have gone to other schools (many to be exact) and I see 9 year olds with black belts. This drives me crazy! Then there is a Hwa Rang Do school here in Arizona which I visited where you couldn’t even test for black until you were at least 18 years old. Which I think is great.
As far as the ego which belts seem to bring on, well I see this alot. The funny thing is the ego I usually see comes from the Karate type schools. And NO I am not bashing systems, just passing on what I have seen.
My Kung Fu brothers and I have been torn between the issue of to wear sashes or just have levels. Since again, people tend to want to have it to show how they have progressed. We finally decided not to wear them, though one of my Kung Fu brothers decided to do it for the children, you know to keep them interested and to give them some sense of accomplishment.
I once had a Karate teacher who would say “A black belt and .25 cents(wow just realized my keyboard doesn’t have a “cents” sign) on the street will by you a cup of coffee.” Though we did have a belt ranking system, I knew what he was trying to get across to us.
Personally I don’t care too much about belts. what matters to me is…can I handle myself on the street.
A black belt/sash means nothing to me. I guarantee you it means nothing to the guy who is trying to take your wallet or beat you down because he doesn’t like the way you look.
Agreed, it means little on the street in a superficial sense.
But not in your skill sense if you have truly worked for the sash/belt in the frmework of pratice of true martial arts.
Karate does have a lot of aggression in it and makes the point of aggression a key focus of its practice. Fierceness and an agressive attitude are encouraged in the foundational study of Karate.
I have often heard the phrase 50 cents and a bachelors degree will get you a cup of coffee too nevertheless, you do the study and work required to get the degree.
we work off the sihing/jei, sidai/mui titles in my school, no belt ranking…
anyways, last yr during cny, 2 of my sihings came back after a 6yr break or something to help us with the lion dance… my simu took out these really long sashes for them to wear, and one of the guys told me they were for the dai sihings of the school. i thought it was complete bull at first, cause they’re a bunch of egomaniacs, and they’re not the dai sihings, but i remembered i grabbed one of the sashes to wear cause it was the closest one to me, and my simu said no don’t wear it, and i said ‘oops, looks at it yeah it’s too long’
anyone ever hear of anything like that?? cause the guy looked at the sash and said ‘maybe i should pass this down…’ lol, that was funny. see, even with no belt system ppl can get egotistical!
To see what you want to see is worse than being blind.
generally with alot of students it makes it easier to teach with a rank system, a colored belt system has been incorporated into lots of kung fu for this reason.
I dont play too much into it though. Some schools you can get your black belt in a few years, some it will take you 10 years. I have met blackbelts who dont match up to some middle rank belts. And then i have met some that are seriously good.
nevertheless, you do the study and work required to get the degree.