southern brothers and sisters!
do you have different types of phoenix eye strikes, uppercuts, straight, downwards, hooking, flicking etc?
some corkscrew some dont. what do you find more effective? why? 
peace
The pheonix eye fist form is generally for striking vital points.
It takes time before you can use it even halfway effectively and without the knuckle collapsing back in due to the force of the strike.
Areas unprotected by bone are the targets for this strike and at higher levels it is a tool of dim mak strikes to points on the meridians.
peace
Kung Lek
The fung ying phoenix shape is amost always used in fists but not always the eye. Eagles claw collapses directly into the phoenix fist, we don’t put thumb behind knuckle, or on top. The eye, seldom travelling more than 6ins to the target, is on a spring mechanism designed to accept and distribute whatever Ging the body movements supply, so it is never a matter of the solitary foreknuckle collapsing under the strain.
Hmm
“It takes time before you can use it even halfway effectively and without the knuckle collapsing back in due to the force of the strike.”
Sorry , KL but have you ever held a phoenix eye fist properly ? it won’t collapse as there is support behind it, and you can use it straight away maybe not to its full effectiveness but straight away for sure.
“Areas unprotected by bone are the targets for this strike and at higher levels it is a tool of dim mak strikes to points on the meridians”
That is a contradicting point, meridians actually lie very close to the bone and many times you hit the bone directly and very near to, as there are nerves and surface points in addition to meridian points, they are known as musculo-skeletal points/areas. some easily known examples : along the jaw line , side of temple, etc…
FT, there are different versions of the phoenix eye strike at which time they change name : double phoenix, Dragon Fist, Crane Head, etc…
Regarding the single Phoenix eye, it can be supported directly behind, within or on top and even in some arts unsupported. It depends on the strike approach and the style’s methodology
Regards
Shi Chan Long
so why the corkscrew??
some good answers thanks, does anyone know why you would corkscrew? is it more effective?
thanks. 
peace
CS
jing (Assisted, accumulated and supplemented by the action) and slipping into the target (does more damage) able to actually go deeper into the striking.
FT nice thread.
I checked this thread and was excited to see a martial discussion again.
Moderator, why is someone that is known to have published VILE comments on this board over and over still allowed to post here?
I often ignore posts of the local trolls, but this board should not support his kind of publication.
damn straight!!
i thought that we should start talking kung fu again. im sick of the trolls too! but lets move on and forget these individuals and learn from each other. 
seriously though we could have a really good chat on heaps of topics if everyone looked at the knowledge of all of us put together. of course there are times when we have to hold back info, but there has been some really good posts on this forum. if this trolling keeps up we will all be talking through messenger services and kfo will miss out! 
from what i know of phoenix eye strikes, corkscrewing inwards and outwards, yin and yang theories of the body, upsetting the chi and blood. left to right side! we all know how effective our systems are when the deadly phoenix eye is at our disposal.
i was seeing if anyone knew about the differences of the corkscrew. in ykm we have all these theories to learn and we try and understand what is happening inside and out of the persons body. dont get me wrong, im no dim mak master and i can say, we probably will never meet a legit teacher of this deadly art form.
if anyone has more info please feel free to email me or simply chuck it on the thread.
peace
[This message was edited by fiercest tiger on 01-24-01 at 10:28 PM.]
Hi-
Shaolinmaster- yes i am familiar with the hand form and am aware that the thumb supports the index finger or sits on top when the hand is more conditioned and stronger.
I don’t feel there is contradiction in what I have said inasmuch that when the beginner uses this hand form there will be a time before they can effectively use it, and at higher levels it can be used to strike at a variety of targets.
as far as uppercuts, hooks and so on, I would suppose that the situation would determine what the effective path would be to place the strike with the hand form.
peace
Kung Lek
Which systems use the double pheonix eye? Is it any more affective than the single?
bui ji,
double phoenix is in hakka, and some mantis.
used for temple shots, for better penetration.
peace
To my understanding the single phoenix eye is more penetrating than the double phoenix.
Ling
Hung Gar
Double Phoenix Eye Fists are used in Hung Gar forms too (Tiger Crane Form, Fa Kuen Forms)
double penetration
sorry, bad wording in my last post.
single phoenix eye fist penetrates deeply to a single spot. eg. the solar plexis & sternum. the power is concentrated on one point.
double phoenix eye fist (two knuckles protruding) will still penetrate, but the power is penetrated to two seperate points. you are able to hit more pressure points than with a single phoenix eye, but this is not practical in some cases. as far as i know - the double phoenix eye is used mostly for temple and face shots shots. it is used more in a downwards or horizontal motion (like knocking on a door)rather than straight forward like a single phoenix.
with a single phoenix you can corkscrew the punch, but with a double you cant really. i think thats why it is used differently. we dont use the double phoenix at all - but we do have a downwards hit to the face with all the knuckles.
thought i would just throw in what i was told.
peace
LING
For temple shots or just in general?
To Biu Ji:
Generating power with a single phoenix eye punch is naturally more powerfull, when you understand body mechanics.
To Ming Fai:
Fa Kuen Forms in HG? Please explain this. I’m only acquainted with (empty hand) forms of Hung Gar and Lau Gar in the system of HG.
Ling
Ling
Unless I missed previous post ,what system do you study? I study YKM in Sydney
Biu Ji, please look at my profile.
Ling
corkscrewing accomplishes a few things, one it tears the fascia to penetrate the organs, as a flat fist tears the face when it turns and pulls the skin, which is why fighters use vaseline. Another reason is to create a double impact strike. To accomplish this, perform the strike inverted, and then without withdrawing, turn it over and continue the strike, one-two. You can reverse this as well, or link it with itself to form multiple strikes. Multiple iumpact strikes are often used to penetrate iron shirt.
phoenix eye strike
FT, i used to know a wing chun sifu that would use a phoenix eye strike, in conjunction with a controling grab with the other hand. it circled from the center line outward across the eye as you pulled your opponent towards you. it was a very efective strike and a somewhat different usage of the fist. I haven’t ever seen anyone else use it quite that way since