san shou vs. muay thai round kick

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
1

i’ve been thinking about this for like a while now, i was just wondering what u think.
alright basically, i’m pretty sure there is a different between the two, at least tahts what i’ve been taught.
my sifu for san shou taught me that the round kick should be like a whip, ie. when performed the front part of the leg kind of snaps like a whip. thus if u’d miss the target, its much easier to recover.
now for the muay thai round kick, as for what i’ve read in books and such, it should be performed like a bat. the leg though be straight at all times, opposed to the san shou version. thus by the bat mechanics, the leg should go thru the target. ie, if u miss u should literally spin around. however in sanshou, the leg is brought stright down, if u miss (at least thats what i’ve been taught).

now, which do u think is the best?

in my opinion if u compare them both, the muay thai version might be more powerful; giving u that knockout power. however, its not good if u miss. as for sanshou, it may not be as powerful, but you’ll have more control and its possible to obtain knockouts with it as well. i’ve seen it done.

what do u think?

2

learn both… apply one or the other when needed… i guess…

3

Sorry to say, almost all Muay Thai fights that I have seen are the same. Very few hand strikes, no take downs (unless someone gets a lucky kick to the others single leg), and all the kicks aimed at about waist level, with occasional head level attacks. The leg is swung as a whole, generally making it easier to telegraph. From the SC take downs, Id love to see Muay Thai Vs. SC, a lot of the Muay Thai kicks set themselves up for a filthy takedown.

4

Sorry to say, almost all Muay Thai fights that I have seen are the same. Very few hand strikes,
not quite true…
no take downs (unless someone gets a lucky kick to the others single leg),
um… maybe b’cuz 1.it mT and NOT san shou and 2. there ARE a few throws allowed in mT…
The leg is swung as a whole, generally making it easier to telegraph.
sorta true… but not always… especially when you are on the recieving end…
a lot of the Muay Thai kicks set themselves up for a filthy takedown.
again… sorta true… like any other kick from any other style of MA known to man… and if you don’t catch it… it’s gonna hurt… he\… sometimes when you do catch it… it hurts…

5

Never said catching it didnt hurt.
:slight_smile:
A lot of the MT fights Ive seen, if ti was MMA and takedowns allowed, a simple instep and sweep would have taken them down… hella easy… From the SC Ive seen, a couple of good hard ass throws come from grabbing the oppositions thigh, and MT sets themselves up for that…
Dont really have anything against MT, just isnt my cup of tea.
Id like to spar someone who is good at MT, but dont know anyone who fits that description. It seems really succeptable to inside attacks…

6

seen or participated in/with… it’s a different ballgame from the sidelines than it is looking down the business end of a whatever…

7

Not too much. I watched one of the guys I grapple with grapple someone else before me, got enough out of what he was doing to know how to win.
(but I already have grappling experience…)
oh sh!t.
Im off.
:slight_smile:
I go home now, Im off the clock.
Peaceout!
SD

8

“now, which do u think is the best?”

It depends on you…do both and the timing will rep. itself.

“Id like to spar someone who is good at MT, but dont know anyone who fits that description. It seems really succeptable to inside attacks.”

Yup…u need to train with someone who knows MT. Seeing it and reading about is quite different than being caught by a roundhouse kick traveling 80 mph.

9

now, which do u think is the best?

I guess it depends on what sort of person you’re fighting.

10

agree with legend, its easy to watch and make generalizations - but when someting is coming to hit you haqrd then its different :smiley:

ive trained both those kind of kicks before when i did MT and also shorinji kempo (sounds similar to san shou). I also use dboth depending on what i was wanting to do. the MT leg kicks are a beast and can be darn fast if you are good at them, also REALLY can cream the leg you hit. Also most guys are good at following up with hands or clinching too (in my limited experience).

The other kick i used more defensively or to distract, the MT one was more offensive for me.

just my experiences :slight_smile:
dawood

11

I do both. I was taught that strikes, throws, locks etc are living things. You use them as neccesary. We aren’t video games.

12

Muay Thai’s “batting” kick has more natural mechanics than San Shou’s snap kick, because the kick is not interrupted by the kicker himself - it only stops when something obstructs it. It flows naturally and doesn’t consume as much energy, because you don’t have to stop the motion and bring it back. You can (actually you must) also apply full body force on the kick through rotational energy. The bat version is a very powerful knock-out weapon, but less stable than the snap version. Neither one is superior, because they are different kicks - their applicability depends on the situation (when/where and how to use them). CLF uses the bat version, because of its natural flow and full-body mechanics.

13

Sorry to say, almost all Muay Thai fights that I have seen are the same. Very few hand strikes, no take downs (unless someone gets a lucky kick to the others single leg), and all the kicks aimed at about waist level

Then U are watching poor boxing.

The last Thai boxing fight I saw on TV had LOTS of high quality take downs, both from caught kicks and from the clinch. It also had the best kicking by far that I have ever seen in the ring.

14

I studied Muay Thai about ten years ago.
So far i havn’t come across a system with such devastating kicks.
I confess i know very little about San Shou so am unable to compair the two.
As for trying to catch a roundhouse kick from a Muay Thai fighter?
Rather you than me!

15

Seen a lot of thai fighters under a lot of rules. Sparred a couple of not very good ones.

They have plenty of hand work, not forgetting elbows, and their rooting, power and speed when they kick makes it bloody difficult to get a solid sweep in without eating your teeth/poppin your ribs.

I bow down before the mighty shaolin-do!:rolleyes: :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

16

**** right you do.
:slight_smile:

“u need to train with someone who knows MT. Seeing it and reading about is quite different than being caught by a roundhouse kick traveling 80 mph.”

The dude I spar on occasion with who is a 4th degree BB in kempo and kick hard as hell, loves MT, but he never actually formally studied it, except from what his dad worked him on. He throws those kicks. They have a lot of power yes, and if you catch the shin to the ribs, yes of course it does hurt.
Gotta work, talk more later.
Gotta go to doctor too.

17

San Shou -vs- Muay Thai Leg Kicks

It depends on what the goals of your training are and who you intend to fight (ie. san shou, mauy thai, street defense, etc..).
Use whatever works best for YOU…now for you to find out that answer, you’ll need to mix it up full contact with some good fighters from various styles and understand how you may use it in a self defence situation.

Personally, I like the san shou version and think it may have some advantages, but then again i’m biased and others experiences will inevitably vary. These observations are based on my own experiences and also on my interpretation of the coaching I’ve had.

The MT leg kicks are done with the body in more towards the opponent and locked more with the kick, which is a straighter leg and generates power a bit differently than the san shou leg kicks, more like a Chinese ‘iron broom’ type technique. This puts the fighter inside in a position to follow up with a short range technique like a punch or elbow…This is just my observation on the MT kicks, i’ve never studied MT, but have seen footage of the China against Thailand SS vs MT team fights and could see this difference. Also i’ve gone many rounds with some pretty good MT fighters, several come to our gym and cross-train and spar with us on a regular basis. I can not discern any advantage to the MT kicks, they don’t hurt any more than SS kicks and are probably easier to trap/catch and throw…but then again they don’t have as much experience with people trying to catch those kicks.

Since the throws and takedowns are such a big part of san shou, and some of the techniques are longer range (like side kick which isnt used in MT, as far as i know), the san shou leg kicks are performed with the body back a bit, turning and the leg whipped out, but make no mistake, it is a penetrating kick with the entire body and not just a snap kick. It is not a ‘chambered’ kick but has a bend to it that then whips out…It is fluid and not ‘baseball bat-like’, making it adjustable. It is not a tentative kick though, there is commitment and follow-thru once its fired and if missed should be planted straight down or could be chambered into a follow-up side kick or something else that goes with the momentum. The SS kick doesnt automatically bring the body in with it into close range, but can still be used to do so, and there are a lot of other ways to get inside besides always following in the leg kick in the same way, which might be vulnerable to a counter or throw. It can be adjusted to work much like the MT leg kick, depends on what you’re using it to do.

If your legs and body are properly tempered/conditioned and trained, the kicks arent that big a deal to catch or even flat out take. Once in a while you really feel a good clean one though. The most painful kicks i have felt are by san shou guys, but i know there are some devestating muay thai fighters out there. Again, experiement with both and see which one works best for you.