Dear all,
I got a friend who does 5 miles run regularly, but can not spar for more than 30 seconds. I cannot run for 5 miles, but can spar more than a minute.
You used more energy running for 5 miles than sparring intensively for 30 second. My question is how come some one who can run for 5 miles, but can not spar for 30 seconds to save his life?
Thank you
Hitman
Good question. I was training for a marathon years ago and was running 5 miles Monday through Thursday and a long run (12 miles) on Friday. I was also taking Judo and when we would randori (judo spar) I was left winded after about 30 seconds. I read a boxing workout a few months back that explained it simply that while throwing a punch you are in an anaerobic state (holding your breath too an extent) and while you are moving around the ring you are in an aerobic state(breathing). Now because when you box you are supposed to punch in order to win. You spend 85% of the time in that anaerobic zone, that if you havent trained for, will leave you blown up. Before everyone on the forum attacks me and calls my mom names please be advised I am not the author of the book I’m just relaying what it said as my limited memory allows.
Cardio has always been activity specific or sport specific if you prefer, there are a couple of links in the stickied “strength training” thread.
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=849944&postcount=154
wow, a whole minute straight? really???
[QUOTE=Oso;854614]wow, a whole minute straight? really???[/QUOTE]
Who is this direct too?
running/sparring… 2 totally different activities… 2 totally different energy system…SAID principle, look it up…
i don’t think they are totally different, if they were boxers, and others, wouldn’t spend so much time doing roadwork.
you have to have a good cardio base for anything. I would think someone who could run 5 miles should be able to kick out 3, 2-minute rounds w/o much trouble.
Running builds stamina.
Bag work build proper breathing method for stronger hits as well as being able to coordinate movements so that you are not out of sync and out of breath all the time.
Both go hand in hand.
Being out of sync with your breathing will cause you to gas out. Being hit and knocking the wind out of will throw you out of sync. If you hold your breath when punching you will be out of sync and out of breath.
A lot of folks also tense up when they spar. This causes the muscles to contract, therefore requiring more oxygen. Runner tend to relax when they run. Only their legs are using most of their oxygen. People that spar tend to tense up their entire body, specially when they are getting hit quite a bit.
If you relax, try to breath evenly. You should be able to last a while. Last Friday, I sparred with 4 people. We did a sort of round robin. 2 min rds. with 1min rest as we rotated in and out. We last for about an hour straight. We were also sparring with first hands only, then feet only, then hands and feet, then added sweeps and take downs, then wrestling after sweep/take down. I was beat afterwards (figuratively and literally), but I lasted the whole session and was effective.
[QUOTE=Oso;854631]i don’t think they are totally different, if they were boxers, and others, wouldn’t spend so much time doing roadwork.
you have to have a good cardio base for anything. I would think someone who could run 5 miles should be able to kick out 3, 2-minute rounds w/o much trouble.[/QUOTE]
Well, that has come into debate as of recently, the carry over of one cardio even to another is very small.
Thing is, running is a general purpose cardio event, everyone runs at some point in their lives, best to be able to do it and not huff n puff.
Then again, you can;'t just do sport specific cardio, that gets boring too.
Soccer, Basketball, swimming, cycling, all good, fun activities, also hiking and climbing.
Its just when we have limited time to devote to cardio ( or any other activity for that matter) that we need to decided what to focus on and in that regard, activity specific cardio is best.
Running is more and more being dropped from regimens and replaced with supersetting and cross fit type stuff wall ball, kb, weights, and other stuff that has been rearranged to deliver efficient and effective results in given timelines.
plyometrics and wall ball being real interesting additions to th fighters training regimen.
Running is a quick high as far as getting the breathing and heart rate peaking fairly quickly. It usually will break a sweat on me at a slower pace than bag work thouh.
functionally speaking as far as cardio goes, I think that bag work and plyo stuff will get your heart and breath going faster than running.
running has some value, just not as much and it certainly isn’t the most efficient way to cross develop strength and endurance like a cross fit or p90x routine or the like. 
running also aids in recovery… builds mental tuffness… helps clean out the toxins built up from muscular breakdown and is meditative…
but sparring is highly anaerobic… full body… and correlates little be being able to run for distance/time… improving anaerobic performance improves aerobic performance… but not the other way around…
endurance is extremely task specific… you have to train muscles to use oxygen in the mode(this case sparring) that you need them to be used in…
tension during the activity also plays a HUGE role in “gassing out”… as xcakid points out…
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;854688]
running has some value, just not as much and it certainly isn’t the most efficient way to cross develop strength and endurance like a cross fit or p90x routine or the like. :-)[/QUOTE]
i have looked p90x up and although i can find lots of sites that are trying to sell me something i can’t find any footage. Is it a machine or what or is it a book of techniques? looks good.
its a program/system.
super effective.
I’ll post pics one day… maybe, if I feel like it, I don’t really dig the whole testimonials, but if you got the will power, p90x will help you look good. It is not a martial arts thing though.
It essentially turns people from lardo to sweet via a regimen of fairly brutal workout made up of all kinds of different routines.
also, running gets rid of toxins by producing sweat, raising blood flow and oxygen intake.
well, bag work isn’t 100 anaerobic if you do your footwork drills. yeah, it’s light intensity, but, it gives you the 70/30 action and provides the higher rate oxygen exchange. Fighting is about 70/30 anaerobic vs aerobic with the aerobic part being your mobility stuff. ranging and footwork drills incorporated in your bag routines will give you a good workout depending how many rounds you are capable of going.
[QUOTE=Suntzu;854732]running also aids in recovery… builds mental tuffness… helps clean out the toxins built up from muscular breakdown and is meditative…
[/QUOTE]
Isn’t running also pretty catabolic? which would seem to be the opposite of these effects?
My muay thai class has us running around the room for a good 10~15 minutes with calisthenics mixed in (like the good ole days). I just take it easy and don’t really push it. Outside of that I’d rather just spend the time on the elliptical cross trainer and save myself the joint pain.
Running can be overdone. It can also be underdone. Like any training, it has to be metered to the body it is working with/on.
some people run all the time, workout all teh time and still don’t achieve the desired results.
I know people who have been stuck in those cycles for years. the reasons are quite a few why they don’t achieve the results they want.
everything from not also changing their dietary intake to match their caloric needs.
Not changing the dietary intake to exclude counter productive substances (chips, pops and chocolate bars can just barely be called food lol)
Not changing to a diet to have effective combinations of nutrients.
then, there’s the exercise part.
Many of the people (they’d hate it if I got on em about it but…) exercise incorrectly, not in a structured manner, without goals and without a system that is objective oriented. they just do one thing, like saying running, and nothing else and expect that to be their panacea.
I suspect most of them have some inkling that the problem is their own and that there is a question of will power and motivation and collection of knowledge that is to be applied that is needed. But, people aren’t comfortable with their failures unless they are in a room full of people who share those failures as well.
when they get into a group dynamic with a leader that knows what to do, they are fine, when left to their own routines, it’s fat ass on th sofa wiping chip dust off their chests as they flip through the channels day after day after day. lol
this is why gender specific gyms work for women.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;854613]Cardio has always been activity specific or sport specific if you prefer, there are a couple of links in the stickied “strength training” thread.
http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=849944&postcount=154[/QUOTE]
There is definitley some truth to this. I believe that there is SOME carryover…so that running will HELP increase your sparring time, but not as much as MORE SPARRING will.
I run three miles, but still gasp for air in class.
I think running is still the granddaddy of cardio for weight loss, though.
one more benefit from doing forms/bag training.
works many of the same aspects you need for sparring endurance.
[QUOTE=Pork Chop;854838]Isn’t running also pretty catabolic? which would seem to be the opposite of these effects?
[/QUOTE]true… i’m sure there is a certain threshold… i couldn’t find any research on exactly what that would be… i’m certain that would be individual… but this is prob the only time you will hear/see my say anything good about running:eek:
but time is better spent doing sprints, circuits, bag/pad work on your free time… run for you pleasure… but not to be better at kickin azz… imo
[QUOTE=Suntzu;854627]running/sparring… 2 totally different activities… 2 totally different energy system…SAID principle, look it up…[/QUOTE]
what he said. 2 different types of cardio.
i’ll still always advocate a run a week in addition to other stuff.