The RH kick as I teach it is dependant upon the persons hip flexibility I teach a side chamber for those flexible and a fron chamber with roll over for those not so flexible. The problem is the 2nd kick puts alot of stress in the hip and knee. It can cause laxity of the knee over time. I start by having the person do a tight chamber with the toes of the base foot pointing toward the target or in front. as the chamber and kick progress I teach the person to pivot approximately 100-110 degrees away from the target. I respect the MT and TKD kick but remember there are 2 types of power. Driving through and snapping I prefer to combine both. If I am kicking at the head I aim one head depth past the target or 8-10 inches then I reverse rotate to set up other techniques. With this technique a fake kick is easier and more snapping/follow through power is there. Its all biomechanics and use of technique along with Physics. The MT TKD kick cover more area much like some wheel kicks or hook kicks remember the power is a culmination of the entire body at one moment and then the shorter the contact time the more power is driven into the target. KC:)
Now This is a Forum
Coming from a Northern Shaolin Background, I have experienced value in
MT and TKD methods, I admittedly do signature kicking warmups from these styles also because their approach adds much to my other practice- I won’t go
without it; each style seems to stress different areas and..he-hee.. They work
great against those who use a similar system..
I have been dying to get around such great mixed minds- Love your quotes, let me throw this out there-I disagree mostly about the “never” and “always” rules about chamber and not chamber because I know both will work great if the response is right- Concerning a spinning hook kick: what’s your view on which is better, the chambered throw or the straight-leg-throw? I have seen both ways done lightning fast, and I have seen “strict rule” stylists slop their own rules and make it work. Imagine you have a choice; you have already looked over your shoulder and you can execute both with equal speed.
One called kwaichang itdidn’t work for you. O.K.
There are two types of round house as front support leg and rear support leg. I was referring to a front support leg Round house kick. One called kwaichang you mentioned getting pushed before finishing the kick–impact then balance will be hard to maintain…Then improve your Balance one might think.. And One called kwaichang mentioned it was a slower recovery. That makes sense. But I because of that have the variation of doing other than recover…go to a new kick from the support leg. Also, shift kick to, a block from one leg, if you are slower than to retract.
My pivot is completed before the kick. My knee aims. Aim passed the target to have more force and hit with follow-through before I lock-out–. Sweeps hitting the target If I get pushed I recover with a hop, my kicking leg is set to return to rear support. Or I ready for impact and chose how to recover/get-up or attack on the way down (to keep them back some more than to actually damage.
No_Know
One called kwaichang I find spinning on the heel is so close to center of the leg line to the hip, off-balance is much less.
Kicking to the air has one set of balance issues. Landing a kick has it’s set of balance issues. What kick has No balance issues?
I hope you get the answers that help, on your topic.
I No_Know
I pivot. I feel that I telegraph less with pivoting compared to stepping in. Kicks are generally easy to see best take every advantage one can.
Its all about set up but technically there are 2 types of RH kicks really, the follow through and the snapping I dont really have balance issues but some beginners might so the pivot allows for more support than not. The further the pivot the more reach and support. What one does should be tailored to that person over time, it might change, also I do not prefer the straight leg kicks they are too easily countered. KC
I prefer the front chamber because it is a “Fake out”. They don’t immediately know that a round house is coming. But I almost only use the Front chamber for RHK’s aimed at the head, and I snap it.
For body and leg kicks I prefer the follow though method and chamber at an angle that allows me to really drive my hips into the kick. No more than 45 degrees off center.
I don’t normally use RHK’s to the body, because of the grab-ability factor.
Everything is conditionally to it’s own proper time and place, there are no universal techniques that always work, under all conditions.
[QUOTE=SanHeChuan;839133]I prefer the front chamber because it is a “Fake out”. They don’t immediately know that a round house is coming. But I almost only use the Front chamber for RHK’s aimed at the head, and I snap it.
Everything is conditionally to it’s own proper time and place, there are no universal techniques that always work, under all conditions.[/QUOTE]
It is a good fake out, and with the front chamber you could also be throwing two or three different kicks with the same inital motion.
Also the front chamber doubles well as a leg check/block.
The problem with the front chamber is it does not have the power of the “side” chambered RH kick true one can throw multiple kicks from that chamber but if you do decide to throw the RH kick the angle of attack is not as sharp as otherwise . That said the kick itself can be jammed and no kicks thrown that in my Humble Opinion is the problem with that kick How do the so called "traditional Chinese Martial Artists throw a RH kick.??? KC
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;838913]One thing, if you don’t pivot, what happens to your knee/support leg, if you get counter -kicked there while your leg is in the air ( typical MT counter) ?[/QUOTE]
drop your center of gravity. you’ll usually end up taking the counter on the meaty part of your thigh, with still smarts like he!!, but not damaging like taking it on a joint. You can also abort the kick and step in. Which can leave you open to elbows and knees, but it’s fighting. You’re bound to be open to something at some time.
[QUOTE=Becca;839533]drop your center of gravity. you’ll usually end up taking the counter on the meaty part of your thigh, with still smarts like he!!, but not damaging like taking it on a joint. You can also abort the kick and step in. Which can leave you open to elbows and knees, but it’s fighting. You’re bound to be open to something at some time.[/QUOTE]
Hmmm. no I mean, what happens WHEN you take a kick on the supporting leg and your foot is not pivoted?
If the toes are pointed AWAY from your opponent that is one thing.
If they are pointed at a 90, that is another and if they are even less than 90, that is another thing too.
I would think that the toes pointed away at 180 or as close as possible would be better, no?
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;839534]Hmmm. no I mean, what happens WHEN you take a kick on the supporting leg and your foot is not pivoted?
If the toes are pointed AWAY from your opponent that is one thing.
If they are pointed at a 90, that is another and if they are even less than 90, that is another thing too.
I would think that the toes pointed away at 180 or as close as possible would be better, no?[/QUOTE]
Not quite getting what you meen? A step-in still has your foot turned 90` from you body, you just step into it rather than planing the suppot leg then pivoting. Your knee is very vulerable wile transfering your weight from the rear leg to the front leg, but once the weight is transfered, it’s reletively easy to protect the support knee. A simple half moon jump will get your weight back off the exposed knee before damage can occure.
There are Two “typical” MT counters to a round kick:
Kick the supporting leg on the “inside” which means you will be making contact with the supporting legs “back” and kick the supporting leg on the “outside”, which would be the supporting legs “front”.
My question was the potential injuries and how the pivot foot effects that.
I get that. The key to the step-in vs. step then pivot, is where you are when the counter connects. It’s a’ goin’ a’ hurt no mater what. That’s the nature of a MT counter. But if it is comming from the outside, you can drop your weight and catching on the meaty, and tensed, outer thigh. This friggin hurts and the muscle could spasm, but it isn’t as bad as a blown out knee.
If it’s an inside counter you could either step in and risk the elbows or try a half moon jump. moon jumps are very good when they work, but that is only about 50 of the time in my experience.
In any of these senarios, the kick needs to be aborted or completed before the counter makes contact.
edit: as for injuries, you really, really don’t want to get hit with only part of your weight on the front foot while it is at a 90` angle from you body. One of the suposedly “useless” stance exersizes, twisted stance, helps train you to sink fast if you see something comming for the knee of your lead leg.
[QUOTE=Becca;839597]
edit: as for injuries, you really, really don’t want to get hit with only part of your weight on the front foot while it is at a 90` angle from you body. One of the suposedly “useless” stance exersizes, twisted stance, helps train you to sink fast if you see something comming for the knee of your lead leg.[/QUOTE]
You mean there’s hidden applications in stance work? Who would have thunk it? 
[QUOTE=Becca;839597]I get that. The key to the step-in vs. step then pivot, is where you are when the counter connects. It’s a’ goin’ a’ hurt no mater what. That’s the nature of a MT counter. But if it is comming from the outside, you can drop your weight and catching on the meaty, and tensed, outer thigh. This friggin hurts and the muscle could spasm, but it isn’t as bad as a blown out knee.
If it’s an inside counter you could either step in and risk the elbows or try a half moon jump. moon jumps are very good when they work, but that is only about 50% of the time in my experience.
In any of these senarios, the kick needs to be aborted or completed before the counter makes contact.
edit: as for injuries, you really, really don’t want to get hit with only part of your weight on the front foot while it is at a 90` angle from you body. One of the suposedly “useless” stance exersizes, twisted stance, helps train you to sink fast if you see something comming for the knee of your lead leg.[/QUOTE]
You should block kicks on the front of your thigh, not the outside meaty part, whether it’s tensed or not. The nerve the attacker is aiming for (in Muay Thai/San Da) runs down the outer thigh–why give them a gift and expose it?
Turn your knee TOWARD the kick, not away from it. This works for both the inside and outside kick, and leaves you in a perfect position to counter with your hands.
I like to counter the roundkick with a hard right cross, but that’s just me.
I know it’s best to block with the front of the thigh. But I have never had anyone seriously counter my roundhouse slow enough to set up the block that way. If the front of my thigh was facing their check, it was because they caught me off balance, literally and figuratively.
dam… I need a camcorder to show you what I meen. 
Injuries
I wouldnt turn my front of my leg into the kick you are asking for far more injuries than turning away from the kick. Most of the muscles and tendons are used to prevent Hyper extension. also I would rather have less than more weight on the leg also there is no superficial nerve in the outer area of the thigh , I think you are talking about the IT Band and some GB pressure points or other pressure points. Imagine stance training and pressure points while talking about fighting. What is this world coming to. KC
[QUOTE=kwaichang;839680]I wouldnt turn my front of my leg into the kick you are asking for far more injuries than turning away from the kick. Most of the muscles and tendons are used to prevent Hyper extension. also I would rather have less than more weight on the leg also there is no superficial nerve in the outer area of the thigh , I think you are talking about the IT Band and some GB pressure points or other pressure points. Imagine stance training and pressure points while talking about fighting. What is this world coming to. KC[/QUOTE]
Both Cung Le and LKFMDC show this technique on their DVDs. I use it effectively and teach my guys to do it as well.
Ill do with and without stepping in. I generally pivot to 180 degree. Depends on the set up. My most successfull RH kicks have generally always been after a feignt of some sort.
One of my best track records with RH kicks to the body have followed a feignt with a left RH kick to the body, droping into a forward 45degree plant and snapping with the right (jumping into the kick as the left drops, saves time). probably 80-85 success ratio of all the times ive used it in sparring practices. Plus its super fun.
On average though I like to aim my RH kicks to your legs. Calf/thigh in sparring, with the intention of striking during a weight bearing moment on that leg, which in a more realistic scenario would be the knee.
Edit: I pivot on the ball of my foot.
Which technique do you speak of the kick or the positiopn of the leg in the kick/? There are no significant superficial nerves in the lateral thigh area. There atre PP’s though aim approx 5-7 inches above the knee on the lateral thigh and see what happens KC