I posted this on the main forum but did not get much of a responce so I will try with the shaolin crew…
The other night at training with my Sifu he gave me the green light to start training and working our techniques with the metal rings on my arms…I started with 6, 3 on each arm and will work up from there.
It really suprised me as to how tired you get - you can really feel in your body where there are weak spots.
I found it really good for posture and extension in relation to techniques as well.
But the big suprise was when I took the rings off, it makes your arms, fists etc sooooo lite.
Anyone else here do this sort of training and if so what sort of experiences, improvements has this made to your training.
with rings, it’s kind of odd because they will slide around back and forth a lot of you only have a couple three on, and that will bang up your wrists kind of bad sometimes. But if you add a few more, so they are not banging around so much, it doesn’t beat up your wrists as bad but the overall effort is more intense, and it takes more energy to keep the form precise.
i totally believe that ring training increases upper-body muscle and bone density, striking speed and power. not to mention stamina. some benefit to the legs is probably also derived from bearing the extra weight.
our sifu says, specifically in the context of 12 spring legs, training with rings makes our gungfu more ‘profound.’ (as opposed to ‘superficial.’) i want to drop a disclaimer here that I am not calling anyone;s art superficial on the basis of the lack of ring training in their program… so i won’t feel compelled to respond when someone takes issue with that statement.
some of my rings developed a rough spot at the seam after years of use, i was getting longitudinal scratches on my arms from them. I found the ones with rough spots and wrapped the spot with a couple wraps of cellophane tape and i haven’t had any more problems with that.
our sifu says ‘make the rings your best friend.’
your kung fu becomes more profound, starting…now!
been brewing a couple of articles for your perusal actually, but still training on the topics and need to find out more first.
I can’t speak for the Hung Families although my introduction to the rings came with training in a Hung style of southern sil lum black tiger.
Training with them applies to sets, drills, basic exercises and some more esoteric exercises.
Training with them and continued training of other methods of kungfu development will increase upper body strength, endurance, breathing, attentiveness, all sorts of benefits to using these devices.
They will make your forearms freakishly hard and using them will refine how you direct brute energy and how you can also meter it.
It is true though, when you first start on them they bite you.
When you start the rings they slam into your wrists ect but when your skill gets better and you have more control they sit more in the middle of the forearm.
In the exercises that we do thats the aim - not to have them slamming into your wrists and thats why we train the movement with 3 to start with so as to get the technique and movement correct before adding some more weight.
It would be interesting to compare the different exercises that Southern and Northern styles incorporate into there systems…Im sure there would be some interesting differences.
rings are compatible with some of the chi kungs also. but most definitely not all… would be kind of silly to try and name the ones i know of since i would bet a lot of chi kung instruction differs anyway. having said that–in the internal red sand hand form we use as a supplement to external iron palm practice techniques, our sifu explicity said using rings with this form will increase/accelerate the benefit.
ideally when you are doing a kung fu form with rings, you should command the rings. i’d think that if accomodations were made for the 2, 3, 4 ring stage where they still bang around a lot, they would need to be subtle enough that to the observer it wouldn’t be obvious. especially since people are laying the foundation of the way they do the form in the early stage, just another approach to working into it. for all i know the form was already heavily modified for ring training before it passed down to me.
i wonder if a lot of people who do (10/12 spring legs // tan tui ) commonly perform it with rings
Hi,
I train in a southern system called Toisan Black Tiger. We train with the Iron or Brass Rings with a set designed for them. I will say that they are very tough to use but once you get used to them it greatly increases many things already mentioned above. However, I would say that the less rings, four or three, is often better because they DO slam into your wrists and create a very good conditioning effect. This is painful at first, and after some time, but will be beneficial down the line. I see videos with people using five or more but to get the most benefit, all the sliding and slamming, my Sifu recommends staying with four rings to maximize the weight without losing that sliding. This sliding also makes it easier to make a move sloppy as opposed to crisp which forces you to strengthen the surrounding supportive muscles in an isometric manner.
i’ve tried the 10 road tan tui with the rings…you know, just for the heck of it.
It sure increases the difficulty of the form, but I am not convinced this is the best set to make use of for ring practice.
I generally use them in a set of exercises that focuses a lot on upper body while maintaining low stances. some of the exercises are massive repititions of strike, covering, lifting, pressing, and some include explosive movements which in turn can be refined based on what the rings are doing.
sets that are done meticulously and a little slower with more of an eye to strength and focus development are likely the best suited variety for use with rings. I honestly don’t think there is any real definitive use on their use and practice and instead they are a weighted training device that is more suitable for someone who is moving in a manner that is conducive to gaining the functional strength associated with the art where they need it.
The conditioning is almost secondary in that sense. However, you can perform repititions of given techniques extrpolated from sets where benefit will be derived from teh added difficulty afforded to the exercise by the rings.
people at early stages should use less rings. If you are gassed and moving with incorrect form or structure, you are not getting benefit, so go with what you can handle and incrimentally build.
say for instance you like to do a type of hard qigong or a dynamic tension set with them, then make sure you can actually do the whole set and it’s techniques with technical and structural correctness with however many rings you have chosen to put on yourself. If you cannot maintain teh structure for teh duration of the exercise. then decrease the rings until you can and then build from there.
We do the set that is in that video, granted that clip is a very, very small piece of the whole thing. The set takes about 20 mintues and focuses on conditioning the arms and body to a pretty intense degree. I do this once to twice a week and it has served me well. You have to remember that conditioning requires more rest time than other forms of exercise as you are actually doing small damage to yourself and must allow time for that damage to heal.
The biting you mentioned is when they slam together and your skin gets caught between. This is quite painful. But once you get the feel for the rings and how to move with them on, they will slid properly, often the pinching is due to an improper movement or alignment.
May I ask what style of Black Tiger you do? Do you have a website?
yah, i did see the video, your instructions how to find it were precise.
make sure you can actually do the whole set and it’s techniques with technical and structural correctness with however many rings you have chosen to put on yourself. If you cannot maintain teh structure for teh duration of the exercise. then decrease the rings until you can and then build from there.
^ that’s how i see it too KL. As far as the battering effects to the distal ends of the radius and ulna, and the pinching of flesh, well, ring training embraces “eating bitter.”
at our school, people add rings one pair at a time so that the detrimental effects on the precision of the form is not overwhelming. our par for rings is a guideline, or what the sifu would like to see. i can’t imagine adding 2 pairs at once.
That sounds like great training, I know what you mean in relation to the enegy it takes out of you. Internally it makes you feel different as well.
I had a class with my Sifu last night and among other things we did rings. Following that I had a tai chi class and man all class I felt so heavy but very relaxed at the same time it felt good but kind of strange or just different I guess.
As for my style I study Liu He (Six Harmonies) & Zi Ran Men (Nature Boxing) - here is the web site:
