originally posted by hendik
This topic is about living with EARTH.
The topic is Tin Yan Dei which is a term associated with toaist belief which is also strongly associated with yin and yang so everything that encompasses the tao is clearly on topic.
Originally posted by canglong
No Red boat without SLT/ CK / BJ the word is synonymous not defined hehehehehehe
Great, As you like it for your own fantasy. Why not? 
Hendrik,
Perhaps now is a good moment to get back to what you know of Tien and Yan concepts. How are these two fit in with Dei? Before I go, I like to pass along an interesting interpretation that I once heard. BJ ended with arms swinging up to the Tien. It completes the Dei (started by SLT). Got to run! =)
Thinking you are doing Red Boat Wing Chun without SLT /CK / BJ is your fantasy and you are welcome to it.
originally posted by PaulH
How are these two fit in with Dei?
Questions require answers Paul maybe he will just pm you he is not keen on putting any answers out in public to be scrutinized.
Originally posted by PaulH
[B]Hendrik,
Perhaps now is a good moment to get back to what you know of Tien and Yan concepts. How are these two fit in with Dei? [/B]
That is simple isnt it?
Why is it called Snake body, Crane potential power, and using the silence …?
or
laying on tempur pedic matress, rolling in the space, listening to the sound of silence. hahaha
or
Drive up to San Jose and I tell you the full story with all the old/pictures…
Why is it called Snake body, Crane potential power, and using the silence …? or laying on tempur pedic matress, rolling in the space, listening to the sound of silence. hahaha
Maybe Paul can restate the question if you didn’t understand it.
More pictures Hendikk??? I thought you learned your lesson last time around you tried to make a point with pictures. These ones however were best left on your hard drive for your own personal use.
Lets get real for a second.
You have absolutely no recognized WC credibility/authority whatsoever.
Your own ex-classmates from that time long ago in a galaxy far away when you actually practiced Kung Fu won’t even back you up.
The only persons who will back you up at all are Rene and Robert. And that’s only becuase you provide them with a human dummy to beat up.
But now your intellectual-strengths are threatening that. Because all your anti-Tin Yan Dei nonsense is eventually going to **** off your buddy Robert. Or has he removed all the Chi Sim parts from his version of SLT???
Your ****in’ in your own bed.
From the Chi Sim Forum @ HFY108
[i]"…HFY uses Tin Yan Dei. However, some self-proclaimed experts have denounced it as not being Buddhist, and is only Daoist. This only shows their ignorance of the concept and their ability to play with words. One must look at the Chinese perspective of Heaven, Man & earth. It is not restricted to kung fu, rather it is a way of looking at many things, from religion to daily life, from physical aspects to the changing of Dynasties. For example, the Emperor is referred to as the Son of Heaven.
The concept of Tin Yan Dei comes from Daoism and influences Chinese thought in general, it is not restricted to Daoist thought. Remember that Chan is ultimately Buddhist, and when Chan came to China it combined with Daoism and Confucianism to create a unique branch. The Seventh World of Chan Buddhism relates this history well in Chapters 1 & 2, the writing refers to the 1st half of Chan being Indian (Buddhist), and the 2nd half is Chinese (Daoist & Confucian).
One must look at the context in which the concept is being referred to. In the martial arts community, it could refer to our logo “Harmony of Body, Mind & Spirit.” (Body = Dei, Mind = Yan, Spirit = Tin.)
In a Shaolin context, it is a way of mapping space in relation to the body. It is a reference to the concepts of Space, Time and, Energy.
[b]“Heaven(space)-Man(energy)-Earth(attraction).”
- GM Hoffman[/b]
Tin Yan Dei is one of the core concepts that expresses the Shaolin and Chan roots of both the HFY and Chi Sim systems. It is also a way both systems use to express 3-dimensional space. The Chi Sim expression is through the body and the limbs. Chango Noaks has started an interesting discussion with GM Hoffman about this in the Chi Sim section. The Tin Yan Dei in HFY refers to the 3 vertical reference points as well as the high, middle and low gates, but does not apply to the limbs. The TYD guidance of the limbs in Chi Sim was replaced by the Deui Ying/Jeui Ying concept in HFY. [/i]
The key to escaping Suffering is that of Correct Knowledge. That is one of the teachings from the 10 Shaolin Wisdoms.
Remember that Chan is ultimately Buddhist, and when Chan came to China it combined with Daoism and Confucianism to create a unique branch.-----
Not according to Six patriach, Hsu Yun, Hsuan Ha… all the Chan patriach of past, present, and future, with the Mind Seal of the Gautama Buddha.
Originally posted by duende
[B]
You have absolutely no recognized WC credibility/authority whatsoever.
Your own ex-classmates from that time long ago in a galaxy far away when you actually practiced Kung Fu won’t even back you up.
The only persons who will back you up at all are Rene and Robert. And that’s only becuase you provide them with a human dummy to beat up.
But now your intellectual-strengths are threatening that. Because all your anti-Tin Yan Dei nonsense is eventually going to **** off your buddy Robert. Or has he removed all the Chi Sim parts from his version of SLT???
Your ****in’ in your own bed. [/B]
Your anger and hatre due to the attachment of ego is burning you. That is real suffering.
Re: From the Chi Sim Forum @ HFY108
Originally posted by Savi
The key to escaping Suffering is that of Correct Knowledge. That is one of the teachings from the 10 Shaolin Wisdoms.
Not true at all.
The key to cross over, (note, not escape), is Prajna Paramita.
NOT CORRECT KNOWLEDGE.
Shao lin martial art ulitmate teaching is ONE (not ten) — the the immoveable heart.
http://www.shaolin.org.cn/html/html/wu/menu1.htm
read it for yourself what is OFFICIALLY presented by the REAL SHAOLIN.
Originally posted by duende
[B]More pictures Hendikk??? I thought you learned your lesson last time around you tried to make a point with pictures. These ones however were best left on your hard drive for your own personal use.
Lets get real for a second.
You have absolutely no recognized WC credibility/authority whatsoever.
Your own ex-classmates from that time long ago in a galaxy far away when you actually practiced Kung Fu won’t even back you up.
The only persons who will back you up at all are Rene and Robert. And that’s only becuase you provide them with a human dummy to beat up.
But now your intellectual-strengths are threatening that. Because all your anti-Tin Yan Dei nonsense is eventually going to **** off your buddy Robert. Or has he removed all the Chi Sim parts from his version of SLT???
Your ****in’ in your own bed. [/B]
Since whoever this person ( who is not in peace ) is , do not honor my request I ask at the begining of this topic, choose to get into a continous of personal attack to block any public information/discussion which he might have fear or does not agree with his own view.
and has a very bad habit of droping Andreas, Robert, Rene , my ex-classmate… names… for his own agenda whatever it is.
I choose to no longer continous this topic discussion.
How sad is it in a millinium of democratic that people still very strongly believe in Authoritarian, violance, and information control by forced?
To this person, I hope he learn somedays that, one cannot destroy the facts exist in the past or others ideas which is valid similar to one cannot destroy the power of earth. Dei. a component of Tin Dei Yan.
Focus
Originally posted by Hendrik
[B]Remember that Chan is ultimately Buddhist, and when Chan came to China it combined with Daoism and Confucianism to create a unique branch.-----
Not according to Six patriach, Hsu Yun, Hsuan Ha… all the Chan patriach of past, present, and future, with the Mind Seal of the Gautama Buddha. [/B]
The concept of Tin Yan Dei comes from Daoism and influences Chinese thought in general, it is not restricted to Daoist thought. Remember that Chan is ultimately Buddhist, and when Chan came to China it combined with Daoism and Confucianism to create a unique branch. The Seventh World of Chan Buddhism relates this history well in Chapters 1 & 2, the writing refers to the 1st half of Chan being Indian (Buddhist), and the 2nd half is Chinese (Daoist & Confucian).
People read what they want and ignore what they cannot accept. To validate these findings, Ming Zen Shakya is the author of The Seventh World of Chan Buddhism who is part of the Zen Buddhist Order of Hsu Yun. The website is www.hsuyun.org where the information can be found. It is within the writings of this book that detail the history of how and when Buddhism came to China and blended with Daoism and Confucianism.
However, the topic is about Tin Yan Dei, not about finger pointing about someone’s presumed ego. Technical discussion requires technical information. My previous post shared how Tin Yan Dei is integral to HFY Wing Chun and Chi Sim Weng Chun. I’d like to get some feedback/questions on it.
Reality Check
Originally posted by Hendrik
[B]Not true at all.
The key to cross over, (note, not escape), is Prajna Paramita.
NOT CORRECT KNOWLEDGE.
Shao lin martial art ulitmate teaching is ONE (not ten) — the the immoveable heart.
http://www.shaolin.org.cn/html/html/wu/menu1.htm
read it for yourself what is OFFICIALLY presented by the REAL SHAOLIN. [/B]
Really? Ever heard of Chi Sim Weng Chun? This system originates from Southern Shaolin and in its teachings are that of Tin Yan Dei as well as 10 Shaolin wisdoms:
- Sik = Knowledge
- Daam = Courage
- Hei/Qi = Energy
- Ging = Power
- San = Spirit
- Ying = Form/Shape
- Yi = Intent
- Lei = Principle
- Faat = Method/Reality
- Seut = Skill
Hung Fa Yi Wing Chun also shares these wisdoms. Both systems have extensive Faat (methods) that teach these 10 wisdoms.
But hey, let’s get back to Tin Yan Dei and how Wing Chun addresses and uses it within its Faat (methods).
Dei = Earth, attraction…
Hendrik, to stay on topic, why don’t you share with the forum what 3 techniques were used on you when you went to the ground (Dei) and you said “That’s not Wing Chun!!!” in front of the two masters? Do you remember? Was it an arm bar? A takedown? Were the techniques based on Tin Yan Dei? Do you know if you went through all Tin Yan Dei, or do you only remember seeing Dei (at the end)?
Could you escape/counter those moves at all? If not, why? I’d like to hear about what happened during those three moves. What type of energies were involved? How did you deal with it? Can you share what you learned from that experience?
Thanks in advance.
Heaven, Human, and Earth are based from IChing or the book of Change. So, this concept is of Chinese origin. not Buddhist.
As Tony and Savi pointed out, this is not exactly news. I was wondering why that statement struck me as being very “off”, then I remembered. There was a comment in the 7th world of Chan Buddhism that was something to the effect of describing Buddhism as being a very adaptable religion. It makes use of a nation’s or culture’s pre-existing concepts in order to help that culture better understand Buddhism. It does not stay rigid, as Christianity or Islam might do, forcing the people to change to a religion. Instead, the religion of Buddhism changes to fit the culture it is in. It has a symbiotic nature to it. HFY and CS recognize this, making them more complete than most other martial arts I have seen.
Rather than repeat what was posted, look for their posts in the thread. All I will add is that from what I have learned of Chan, it is a mulit-dimensional phenomenon that encompasses Daoism, Confucianism, and Buddhism.
Hendrik, what you said maybe true, from your perspective. If only you would add phrases such as “From my experience” or “In my lineage’s history” to your posts, you could alleviate and stop many of the attacks before they have a chance to begin. You always come off sounding like you speak for all families of Wing Chun, when that is not possible. I am also beginnign to wonder if you even ahve any real experience to base you observations from, as you never say “In my experience.” or anything to that effect. Remember, its the little details that matter the most sometimes.
Cool poem though that you posted (CT,HD), I liked it alot. Thanks!
Yan, human, ------ The story about DE virtue
opps I owe this to Pual, so here I must pay you before I go:D
I learn it from Socrates ? he remember he owe others two chickens before he took his death sentence?
Once upon a time in China, Wong Fei-Hung movie.
in the movie,
There are people and different type of people.
Some do everything for friends to support friends to looks great, to success, being it giving up fame, status, money… because it is friends. what to prove? Thus, nothing said.
Some understand what is the truth behind a certain things among friends. such as catching a non resistance broken arrow is much much easy than recieving an arrow, and it is much much much easy then a chain of full arrow which aim piecing throug one’s heart. what to prove? Thus, nothing said because it is friends.
Some sold out friends because it is not friends at all but taking advantage of and exploit others in the name of friends.
Some pretend to makes friends just to rely on others to look strong.
some has no idea at all what is what and running in the street calling out " News News …" because without that “News News ..” one cannot justified one’s existance.
Some …
So, the reason Wong Fei-Hung was Wong Fei-Hung is because he is very clear what is what. With this Clarity, he be able to truely practice Yee.
some translate this Yee as rightiousness or just, but that is not true, so what is Yee? Yee means appropriate action.
In Chinese, it is said that there is Yee between friends, That means one does what is appropriate and benificial for friend forgeting about one self, be it one sacrified oneself or dis-agreement.
General Kwan Kung of the Tri-kingdom insist to go back to Liu Bei eventhough Chao Chao gave him all the gold and silve trying to buy him out. But General Kwan didnt sell for that. He went to Liu Bei who is one of his soar brother because he knows Liu Bei needs him and that is the appropriating to do to support a friend who needs help instead of getting rich.
I read somewhere about Atila the Hun saying " dis-agreement is not dis-royal." that is a great presentation of Atila knows Yee. It is beyond, you agree with me you are friend, you do not want to be with me when I am doing something bad you are not my friend. one can accept disagreement. thus, it is not a supprise he has a great army.
Wang Xiang-Zai, the founder of Yee Chuan or intention = punch said every punch subdue the heart. That is using the greatness to transform the others not to supress others by force, where today one can punch a guy and tomorrow the other guy is going to learn technics and revenge. there is no end to these fighting.
And one can see, even Mas Oyama learn his art. Who is a better fighter? Who knows since they never fight. But, Mas Oyama can be humble enought to learn WXZ’s art. That also Show’s Mas Oyama’s true learning spirit beside WXZ’s greatness of presenting the Truth.
So, what is Yan about? That is about AWARENESS. without AWARENESS there is no great art, no great personality, appropriateness, no truth, no great technics, no improvements. Without AWARENESS, WXZ will not arrive his advance state of art, Mas Oyama will not go study Yee Chuan, General Kwan will be blind within the gold and silve, Altila will kill all who dis-agree with him. Wong Fei-Hung will not reach the greatness.
So, Yan is about AWARENESS. and crystal clear AWARENESS is silence. AWARENESS is Now.
That’s all Pual. Yan, Human, Do you AWARE? are you in silence?
So,
Dei is allow the mother nature everything to support one there is no more conflict.
Yan is about Awareness or cierh in madarin. Cierh or Awareness is wisdom.
Sure, similar with Dei, there are process of training of Awareness in Wing Chun Kuen. The SLT the Chi Sau…
as it said, subdue action with silence. That is the of power well cultivate AWARENESS.
Wing Chun means praise the spring. in order to have spring to praise, one needs the soil and all support no conflict nature energy, One needs the awareness of living in this instant and doing appropriate things. Dei and Yan contribut to two third of the spring.
Fan Qing Fu Ming or overtrun the Qing and return to Ming is a conflict big internal conflict of not accepting living in the Earth which has belongs to Qing and living in the past without AWARENESS.
Thus, they fail. 1, they against the reality 2, they are not aware of living in now but trying to go back “fu” return to Ming.
What china in 1850 needs is a moment of true living to make things better, not internal conflict which is contribute to energy draining and going back to Ming which cannot be done.
Wing Chun Kuen is not only about martial art it is about living. How to live a live.
Here I pay you and I sign off once for all.
Rest in peace.
You forgot blue sky! Can’t fly away without it! Enjoy your new freedom, Hendrik, but don’t forget to come home to roost! I’ll miss reading your madman’s diaries or things on your journey.
P.S. Okay, I got the other chicken. Thanks! =)
I don’t want to get involved in this (yet another) inane dispute but . . .
Duende wrote:
The only persons who will back you up at all are Rene and Robert. And that’s only becuase you provide them with a human dummy to beat up.
**Don’t speak for Robert. He’s not on this forum “backing” anyone up so why bring him into your petty argument with Hendrik in the first place?
But now your intellectual-strengths are threatening that. Because all your anti-Tin Yan Dei nonsense is eventually going to **** off your buddy Robert. Or has he removed all the Chi Sim parts from his version of SLT???
**What do you know of Robert’s SNT (that’s what we in Yip Man WCK call the first form btw – not SLT) or anything Robert teaches; have you ever met Robert or trained with Robert? Are you also going to suggest that Hawkins, Robert’s sifu, also stole “Chi Sim parts” (whatever that means) and put those into his SNT? That would be the only way to explain the similarities between Robert’s and Hawkins’ forms (or wait – perhaps after Robert stole “Chi Sim parts” Hawkins then stole it from Robert?). You know nothing of either Robert or his teachings. So I strongly suggest that in the future you leave him out of your tirades.
Regards,
Terence