Rare Shaolin Forms

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Shaolin Kung Fu
1

Hello Everyone,

I am very interested in exceptionally rare shaolin forms. I thought this might be a useful thread where we can exchange info on ones we are looking for.

There are two i want to find out about.

THe First one is Shaolin Tian Gang Quan:

Tian Gang () roughly translated is an archaic term for ‘constellation’

The most famous tian gang quan is that of wudang mountain. But china has many others, including one interesting style where the form is done in one place, rather like a wing chun form.

However the one I am interested in is Shaolin Tian Gang Quan. Does any one have ANY information about this style, where it is practiced, who knows it… Any names of people or places would be a great help… Does anyone out there know it?

I beleive it appears in the old shaolin encyclopedia, around page 713 to my recollection (i don’t have access to the books, and haven’t seen them in a couple of years). Look in the contents for the characters . Look at the form. Does anyone recognise it?

It is a wonderful sequence that contains some unique moves.

THe second form i am interested in is Shaolin Shi tou Quan or ‘stone fist’. I don’t remember if this appears in the encyclopedia or not. It is a long form containing a lot of hook hands… Again any info would be useful.

Thankyou.

2

[QUOTE=RenDaHai;976709]Hello Everyone,

I am very interested in exceptionally rare shaolin forms. I thought this might be a useful thread where we can exchange info on ones we are looking for.

There are two i want to find out about.

THe First one is Shaolin Tian Gang Quan:

Tian Gang () roughly translated is an archaic term for ‘constellation’

The most famous tian gang quan is that of wudang mountain. But china has many others, including one interesting style where the form is done in one place, rather like a wing chun form.

However the one I am interested in is Shaolin Tian Gang Quan. Does any one have ANY information about this style, where it is practiced, who knows it… Any names of people or places would be a great help… Does anyone out there know it?

I beleive it appears in the old shaolin encyclopedia, around page 713 to my recollection (i don’t have access to the books, and haven’t seen them in a couple of years). Look in the contents for the characters . Look at the form. Does anyone recognise it?

It is a wonderful sequence that contains some unique moves.

THe second form i am interested in is Shaolin Shi tou Quan or ‘stone fist’. I don’t remember if this appears in the encyclopedia or not. It is a long form containing a lot of hook hands… Again any info would be useful.

Thankyou.[/QUOTE]

Hmm, you picked some doozies!

Well, on page 418 of the Shaolin Encyclopedia (older version) is a form called , which the is not clear if it is the character for Yao (delicate). It’s a pretty weird set.
If LFJ is around, he can translate the background information that is on that page.
This set is nothing like a Tian Gong set I learned once.
If you want to see (in English no less!) what is usually called The Shaolin Tian Gong Quan, step by step instructions, the drawings are of a famous Shaolin and TJQ master (but I forgot his name! oh, cover says Du Xilian or Li Tianji), then find this book (amazon often sells it):
A Guide to Chinese Martial Arts, ISBN 0-8351-2451-7 / ISBN 7-119-01393-9
The Shaolin Tian Gong set is this book is the same as what I learned once (so long ago that I hardly remember how to do it) and it is really a great set of movements, it compliments all the Top 10 Shaolin sets.
I think somewhere there was a video made of this set, the drawings were made from the videos.

It is very similar to this Wudang Tian Gong Quan set:
http://www.56.com/u41/v_MjY1MDM2OTQ.html
http://you.video.sina.com.cn/b/1211894-1256977671.html

As far as the origin of this set, well, there are some Wudang Tian Gong sets.
Also, the Da Hong Quan (Big Vast or Swan Fist) style was called this as a nickname in the post-Yuan eras. This Tian Gong is part of what is often called Shaolin Black Tiger Boxing.

The Shi Tou Quan is often known as the Meteor Fist set. It is on page 513 of the Shaolin Encyclopedia, and there is a lot of information about this set given. It’s about 75 movements.

Liu Zhen Hai has a “Za Quan” Smashing Fist, set on page 86 of his Shaolin Da Lu book, that is similar to this Shi Tou Quan set.

Seems to be a book out from 1993 on just this set:
http://www.kingstone.com.tw/book/book_page.asp?LID=se008&kmcode=2015280051985&Actid=tornado&partner=

This Chinese site has info on this set:
http://www.wulinjj.com/bbs/dispbbs.asp?boardid=29&id=14754&page=0&move=pre

3

Five Ancestors style has a form with this name as well.
of course, it looks like all the other Wu Zu sets, namely Nan Quan.

4

Here’s a rare Shaolin routine:

Qinglong Chuhai Quan - Dragon Rising from Sea Fist

5

[QUOTE=RenDaHai;976709]Hello Everyone,

I am very interested in exceptionally rare shaolin forms. I thought this might be a useful thread where we can exchange info on ones we are looking for.

There are two i want to find out about.

THe First one is Shaolin Tian Gang Quan:

Tian Gang () roughly translated is an archaic term for ‘constellation’

The most famous tian gang quan is that of wudang mountain. But china has many others, including one interesting style where the form is done in one place, rather like a wing chun form.

However the one I am interested in is Shaolin Tian Gang Quan. Does any one have ANY information about this style, where it is practiced, who knows it… Any names of people or places would be a great help… Does anyone out there know it?

I beleive it appears in the old shaolin encyclopedia, around page 713 to my recollection (i don’t have access to the books, and haven’t seen them in a couple of years). Look in the contents for the characters . Look at the form. Does anyone recognise it?

It is a wonderful sequence that contains some unique moves.

THe second form i am interested in is Shaolin Shi tou Quan or ‘stone fist’. I don’t remember if this appears in the encyclopedia or not. It is a long form containing a lot of hook hands… Again any info would be useful.

Thankyou.[/QUOTE]

(Rock Fist) We have a set with this name as well. In our school the legend tells of 36 stone dummies in fighting positions and that the set was developed at Shaolin. Our set (unlike what the name suggests) features the palms and double palms striking, piercing and slapping with the palm and has only one closed fist punch.

r.

6

[QUOTE=r.(shaolin);977060] (Rock Fist) We have a set with this name as well. In our school the legend tells of 36 stone dummies in fighting positions and that the set was developed at Shaolin. Our set (unlike what the name suggests) features the palms and double palms striking, piercing and slapping with the palm and has only one closed fist punch.

r.[/QUOTE]

Well, Quan is better translated as Boxing or system of exercises rather than Fist, by Fist it is only system of boxing.

I’m pretty sure that the in the Shaolin Encyc is mostly open handed strikes, as you describe.

7

[QUOTE=Sal Canzonieri;977117]Well, Quan is better translated as Boxing or system of exercises rather than Fist, by Fist it is only system of boxing.

I’m pretty sure that the in the Shaolin Encyc is mostly open handed strikes, as you describe.[/QUOTE]

Isn’t it literally “fist law” where “law” denotes “method/system”?

8

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;977124]Isn’t it literally “fist law” where “law” denotes “method/system”?[/QUOTE]

Yes, “Fistic System”.

Like saying Fisticuffs

9

the rarest forms are those of the silver dragon, no two are alike… they come only from the intentions of mind at peace with itself… these forms are the highest of the order and are only accessible when one has discovered the nature of the way. :slight_smile:

10

[QUOTE=Sal Canzonieri;977035]Here’s a rare Shaolin routine:

Qinglong Chuhai Quan - Dragon Rising from Sea Fist

-------------------[/QUOTE]

Thats a rare one certainly.

Yong Wen Da Shi in Kaifeng doesn’t practice this form, but a friend of his does, and this form is practiced by his son. So if you want to learn it kaifeng is the place to go.

http://www.56.com/u85/v_MTYyNjkyNTA.html

The first performance is from qing long chu hai quan. After 2 minutes the clips are mainly the standard shaolin Long quan (also called Lian Bu Quan). Yes this is the same lian bu quan as practiced in many many kung fu styles. In shaolin its called dragon fist. It is the same as the divine animal fist in Tagous encyclopedia. Yong Wen does practice this form.

However qing long chu hai is rarer and is shown in the first half of the video. Yong wen da shi told me there was a third style of dragon fist, but i forget the name.

11

Hello,

http://www.56.com/u68/v_MjU1ODQ2NDk.html

Another Shaolin Qing Long quan. Not qing long qu hai but definately a shaolin set. Its not possible for me to verify where this is from though.

Qing long means ‘azure Dragon’ (qing is any blue/green colour). It is one of the 4 most ancient guardian deities of china and as a result is a common name in kung fu forms.

THe deities are the white tiger of the west, azure dragon of the east, red phoenix of the south and the mysterious tortoise of the north. All of them are kung fu styles. Xuan Wu (the tortoise with a snake wrapped around it) is the symbol of wudang mountain (and the original name of wudang mountain… Xuan Wu shan). Consiquently wudang has many forms called Xuan Wu quan.

HERE is another rare form, Shaolin Bai Hu quan, WHITE TIGER FIST. Yong Wen Da shi says he teaches Hei Hu quan and Bai Hu quan as a couple. (black tiger fist and white tiger fist). Although I am no longer in kaifeng. I have never seen shaolins white tiger…anyone?

12

One of my teachers (Huang Yu Chen) once stated that Tian Gang is more of method/synthesis than an actual form, though many present it as form only!
There are quite a few Tain Gang forms out there and it is not as rare unless you add a prefix or suffix to make it appear a Lost Form or some similar designation.

I see even more of this with Sal’s work, where you have a basic form/structure but over time it morphs into a 'different system, dues to location, knowledge of the form and the lack of information/exposure in the place where this new designation takes place.
Let’s say I am a MA practitioner from Shandong province and I leave the area to find work in Qinghai, my main art is Bajiquan but when I reach the village in Qinghai, that same art undergoes changes and it morphs into a ‘different’ art, quite extensive but it still retains an essence of the original art. Someone like Sal comes along and his research shows some element of a base art not common in the area but still show influences of origin.

Same principle in Okinawan circles where the influences of South China Crane style(s) in the development/re-engineering of its martial systems, more evident and pronounced in some than others!

13

it’s quite obvious no one is taking the silver dragon forms seriously… ah well… just another stone in the pond. :slight_smile:

14

[QUOTE=uki;980481]it’s quite obvious no one is taking the silver dragon forms seriously… ah well… just another stone in the pond. :)[/QUOTE]

Silver Dragon…Yin Long? Sounds like a meditative concept rather than a rare form. In fact if only one person ever does each form once then it is not rare at all, it is unrepeatable. Its an interesting concept but not quite what were looking for.

Old forms are fascinating. They are movement poems. Within the form is buried the strategy and principles of the master who created it. Some masters poured their entire lives into creating their legacy, their form. These forms rhyme and have Chorus unlike modern forms. (sequences of repeated moves between bursts).

Compare the line ‘Once upon a midnight dreary…’ with the line ’ It was dark…’ THe second may be more effective in making yourself heard but i would far rather learn about the first. Old forms are like this first line, new forms are like the second. Although the second one is practical, far more wisdom can be gleaned from the first.

Just as in poems one can briefly step into the soul of the poet who created it. In forms one can literally step into the body of the warrior who created them so many centuries ago. This is a wonderful feeling. So i seek these rare and ancient forms…

Silver Dragon is an interesting concept but not quite what we are looking for…

15

Hey Ren, do you mean this set ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1AIE8h7gCVM&feature=youtu.be

Best Regards,
Xian

16

neither form is Shaolin

tiangang and shi tuo forms at pages 418 and 513 of vol.2 of the Encyclopedia of Shaolin kung fu (4 volumes) (or here: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bxl1KoIWMP3-OGE3TFNqUUxEYzg) have nothing to do with Shaolin kung fu!
this may be a harsh comment, but the background story is the laymen, while learning stuff from Shaolin, have always brought their own stuff into Shaolin, and even sometimes they’ve made up a semi-factual historical line of connection to older Shaolin eras. many forms you see practiced with the prefix Shaolin in their names are actually from outside and even have no connection, historical or technical whatsoever, with Shaolin. they’re mostly just single forms taken mostly from northern so-called long-fist styles and sometimes are from the south, and in some cases they’re just modern made-up stuff. i can name: Baji quan, Jingang Baji quan (that Jingang form performed by Zhang Shijie), Lian Shou Duan Da, Lian Bu quan (they call it the dragon form), Fan Zi quan, Yan Qing quan, San Huang Pao Chui, the 13 Kanjia quan forms, Jingang quan forms, most, if not all, those animal forms: all those eagle forms, the eagle-leopard form (Shi Decheng’s leopard form), the monkey forms, the mantis forms, all those ridiculous scorpion and frog shows, …, even some forms like the big mei hua form, the big hong quan forms 2-13 (the first form is an ancient original form), and some others, though connected Shaolin, are modernly created stuff and not worth considering. to give a guesstimation, almost 90 percent of the forms you see in Shaolin shows and more than half of the forms in the encyclopedia could be in this list! this list could go far and wide. these forms are NOT Shaolin.

about the tiangang form, the encyclopedia says there had been a tiangang quan brought to Shaolin at the time of monk Fuju, about 960s AD. but for this specific form it says it was passed down by contemporary monk Chunhua (1848-1945), and it’s mostly practiced in Shandong, Jiangsu, and Hebei provinces.

the stone form is just an obvious northern long-fist style, lots of hook hand, with the arm suspended behind, that typical raise hook hands and one leg in the air like a flying crane, all the ubiquitous cliches of so-called ‘flowery’ kung fu styles! i don’t think it’s worth learning!

17

[QUOTE=SHemmati;1301493]tiangang and ****uo …[/QUOTE]
oh! :eek: $hit! :o :smiley:

18

In terms of Luohan, Hong Quan, Pao Quan material I dont think its Shaolin either. But I dare to say If its passed down for one Generation is theoretically Shaolin. Would I learn the set ? Properbly not. In case of my video,I found it by accident.
And seeing the Gentleman perform is like a rare treasure for me. :slight_smile:

Best,
Xian

19

By the way there are people who connect San Huang Pao Chui to Shaolin ? I looked into it, it seems pretty legit to me as an Emei Art.

Best,
Xian

20

Hey Xian,

No, not the one I was thinking of.

Great performance though, that guy was really good!

@Shemmati

Yeah, there is a lot of stuff in the Encyclopedia that shouldn’t be there. The STONE fist I have since seen in a manual published early 20th century for military practice, I think nothing to do with Shaolin they have just repeated the manual. You can buy reprints of it now in bookstores here.