It came accross my mind. Why is it that the kung fu community has so many fakes trying to pass as us with these outragous claims?:mad:
Over the past year I’ve heard everything and I mean EVERYTHING. You got people who claim to to fly from 20 story buildings, swim the ocean with their pectoral muscles, battle entire ideals/presidents with their minds,dismantle nucluear bombs then to gracefully play to the tune of Yankee Doodle on a clarinet that was ingenuously hidden behind toilet all while playing the national anthem with his armpits.
Come on people what’s gong on with this world?!
How come you never hear about how a bjj guy grappled a rhino or a vale tudo guy taking down a tank?How about a boxer who can punch at the speed of a rocket?
No wonder some mma don’t give us respect. All you have is poeple going around saying all they need is just the eye gouge. kung fu is more than that. Waht ever hoppened to punching a guy in the ribs followed by an elbow to the throat and a knee to the kidneys?? I don’t see anything in nhb that they don’t do in kung fu, minus the ground fighting. What are your thoughts?
Bah!..the other side (if I can say!)have their little things too…They believe they can magicaly absorb punches. (As seen in the last ufc,a guy named Mir? tried this approach and was almost punched to death.)
One other thing is the lying on the back with legs speaded asking to come in the guard!..Go do that in a street fight!
Of course there is the belief that a 100 pds girl will be able to armbar a 200pds guy!..:rolleyes: I could carry a 100 girl (or guy whatever!),holding like a chihuawa on my ankle,on my arm all day long or use her(or him!) against a wall!..
Just trolling a little bit!..(hey ,why not?)
Yeah either Kenpo or in the case of CMQ it was a Korean style I suspect Tang Soo Do. The question I have is why do they imitate Kungfu? Do they feel the art they learned doesn’t have any merit?
Oh but with the popularity of instructional videos i have noticed allot of “sifu” poping up and opening schools that way. I heard about a guy opening a school saying he was a student of Pan Qing Fu in Chicago. Turns out he attended a seminar that was given the year before. That with his amazing knowledge gained from books and video he opened his own school.
I’ll prolly get flamed for this, but ah well, here goes.
I think it happens because there are aspects of the traditional styles that allow for it. when I was in muay thai, and now in judo, and bjj, you use what you know works for you. there is no discussion of chi. no talk of anything mystical. no talk of what masters were able to do. It’s just training. then when you compete, you compete how you train. maartial sports gives competitors a venue to fight full contact, using what they know. They don’t have to think “I might do this”, or “I may react this way” they know because they have to do it in competition.
CMA goes along the same lines - drilling and training, but there are also other aspects such as chi that not everyone understands. there are some pretty outlandish stories of masters who could do amazing feats. Some “Instructors” now capitalize on this by telling unknowing people the amazing things that can be accomplished with kung fu, merely propagating stories, like the flying kick of an 11 story building. People get blinded by this and are like “Wow, he must have been stong” and they in turn propogate the stories to their friends. since the main goal is to not fight, then there is an out for the “instructor” as he doesn’t have to prove that he can’t do what he claims, as his goal is to not fight, and he has nothing to prove anyway.
It is schools like that that give traditional schools a bad rap, CMA in particular. Then there is the internal training, and the health benefits. Yes, they are very real and internal training is effective in combat, BUT alot of the schools (tai chi really comes to mind) teach only the health aspects and none of the combat, watering down the style and giving birth to the “MA hippies” that we always rant about.
another thing is that so little is actually verifiable because there are so many variations of everything. For example, I know that there are at least 3 different versions of the longfist form Gong li chuan, and that one focuses one grappling techs while the other two are primarily striking. with so much variety, it can be hard to see what is actually legit. Someone new to MA definitely will not know, and they end up getting scammed, then getting to instructor level and unknowingly scamming others.
Originally posted by Braden Claiming 500-0 and higher tournament records isn’t the same mythology process?
LOL, yeah, it is, and you hear that in CMA too - all the undefeated challenge matches. I’m not saying there is no mythology in those styles, just not as much, and due to today’s venues, it’s not as hard to pick out people who can’t use their skill. We had a McMMA school here, and he was put out of business. his students competed in local grappling and mma tournies and repeatedly lost. they began to realize that he was not what he said he was, and all his students left.
Because the general publics perception of “Kung Fu” is blindingly misguided.
You say “I do Kung Fu”, and besides sounding like Keanu Reeves, they’ll instantly ask something stupid like; “Can you do that Bruce Lee punch thing?” or “Is your master a 400 year old Monk?”
Most people are dumb. Fraudsters use this to their own advantage.
The schools that don’t fight, talk about mystical powers etc. Are useing it as a business tool. For most of the west the TV series Kungfu was their first intro to the art. Easy to manipulate them with their knowledge based on that crap.
I would first figure out the motive of any claim(why the statement was made, what is the intension?). Is the person trying to get an important point out or just trying to make himself big. Some thing like kicking off 11 floor or punching a bull, the motive is obviously violated the kungfu moral(WuDe). Many people used to think that WuDe has nothing to do with kungfu, all they need to achieve high level is to learn and drill. However the true factors that made up a high level kungfu should be 1. True source of CMA knowledge. 2. the ability of understanding and logic. 3. years of uninterrupted training. 4. years of experienced of applying.
As you can see, the people who think by lying they can be benefit in any ways, has no correct logic and no understanding of Tao. In this way, they cannot learn correctly, no matter how much time they train, they can’t get the proper result. So form the motive of claim, if the motive not met the WuDe, they can’t have high level CMA.
yeah paul, but the above mentioned claims (the ones you pointed out) were not made by CMA - shaolin do is not true CMA and Mas Oyama is Japanese. wu de probably had no meaning to them. Also, the biggest driving factor nowadays behind a lot of schools today is money, which I think is the point. They are propogating these claims to get students, which brings them money, and possibly a big name.
Originally posted by SevenStar yeah paul, but the above mentioned claims (the ones you pointed out) were not made by CMA - shaolin do is not true CMA and Mas Oyama is Japanese. wu de probably had no meaning to them. Also, the biggest driving factor nowadays behind a lot of schools today is money, which I think is the point. They are propogating these claims to get students, which brings them money, and possibly a big name.
All high forms of MA has to do with the way of life. Wu De is just the way TCMA called such way that will help wiser development and qi cultivation. Tao is in every thing. Shiao Lin would have the equivalent of WuDe in the Buddha’s studies. I believe high Japanese MA have that part too, just that you have to ask Japanese MAritsts to know what they are.
And yet, money is the biggest driving factor today, not just in MA, it is almost in every things. Just take a look at the judges and lawers in the court, they are making a business deal rather than a justified decision. So goes with governments, politicians, and educations. That is the reason I will use MA to promote the benefits beyound the matters. After all, what are you going to do with the material wealth once you get them? Just to use these materials to worn out your qi and thinking you have had a happy life after your qi is gone?
I hope the correct way of knowing what is true gain and what is true lose can be a common knowledge some day, so that the scenario of the hard cash and big name that you are talking about will not be so worse. That is the reason I am pushing TCMA, and the same motive of why I sculpt(my professor in my university is selfish artist, she failed to see why I am doing art. She won’t recognize me until so she called I can freely express and explore. It will be very easy for me to let go of my spiritial responsibilities and be as selfish as she wants. But I will fight and stand for who I am no matter if she give me hard time in university).
The basic problem with martial arts these days is the talk.
If everyone just got on with the practice and kept their mouths shut, the MA community would be better for it.
There’s far too much of the tired old “my style is better than your style”.
Politics has taken over and charlatans have emerged and everything has gone pear-shaped. It’s no wonder so many schools decide to remain ‘underground’ (for want of a better term). That said, true martial artists can still be found - it’s just harder.
If only ignoring the fools would make them go away.
Remember “those who know do not speak, those who speak do not know”.
Originally posted by TaoBoy
[B]The basic problem with martial arts these days is the talk.
If everyone just got on with the practice and kept their mouths shut, the MA community would be better for it.
There’s far too much of the tired old “my style is better than your style”.
Politics has taken over and charlatans have emerged and everything has gone pear-shaped. It’s no wonder so many schools decide to remain ‘underground’ (for want of a better term). That said, true martial artists can still be found - it’s just harder.
If only ignoring the fools would make them go away.
Remember “those who know do not speak, those who speak do not know”. [/B]
I don’t really agree with kept the mouths shut totally policy. Well, my father have that mouth shut policy. However, my policy is to update with today’s infromation society and not lost the real practicing and training of the old days.
Now a days, ignoring the fools won’t make them go away, in the old days would. Now a days, noly the general public becomes more knowledgible and well educated, then the fools will go away.
If the one that speak do not know, then why is this forum here? Why are you speaking any ways?
Although, to turn back to the original thread, Seven is ABSOLUTELY correct pretty much in his entirety.
Braden–nobody with half a brain seriously believes the 400-0 claim. Especially since Rickson has a documented loss to Ron Tripp in a Sambo match It’s enough to say he’s very very very good–on another level according to all BJJ champs who’ve rolled with him–but being great at BJJ doesn’t make you super great at Sambo.
It’s enough to say he’s very very very good–on another level according to all BJJ champs who’ve rolled with him–but being great at BJJ doesn’t make you super great at Sambo.