I have talked to different people who used to study some MA or another. Some where in the conversation they almost all seem to say something about wishing they never quit.
My question is why do you think most people quit martial arts?
[QUOTE=Shadow Skill;736549]I have talked to different people who used to study some MA or another. Some where in the conversation they almost all seem to say something about wishing they never quit.
My question is why do you think most people quit martial arts?[/QUOTE]
There are plenty of people that I used to take MA with that quit. Most of them didn’t think that MA was that important in their life, and they went on to do other things (college, girlfriends, boyfriends, husbands, wives, kids, etc.) A lot of them probably still want to train, like I was talking to somebody from my old class a couple of months ago, about starting back up, and he just couldn’t put in the time with family. Ironically his kid goes and he sits there and watches the kids class, though.
ma is such a small slice of life, in the end it really does not mean that much for a lot of folks, which is fine.
Family and career are so much more important anyway.
My Dad quit when he got his black belt (tkd). I guess he felt he accomplished something good? He switched to tennis and biking as a sport then. He doesn’t quite understand me and my martial obsession. My dad doesn’t regret it, but it was a hobby for him, not a lifestyle.
[QUOTE=Shadow Skill;736549]I have talked to different people who used to study some MA or another. Some where in the conversation they almost all seem to say something about wishing they never quit.
My question is why do you think most people quit martial arts?[/QUOTE]
Well I am one of those people.
I started taking MA back when I was in Jr High. Continued on non stop, although different styles, I was 25yo.
I ended owning and running a school eventually. That was the start of my burned out phase. It was no longer fun and the business aspect came into play. So I sold the school and quit MA altogether. 3yrs later, I returned to study again. However, after a year I changed careers. I had to commute to work and if not commuting, I was traveling. Time constraint forced me to give it up again.
Fast forward 12yrs later to current day. I am back training again. 30lbs heavier, older, and less flexible. I guess I can’t fully get away from it. I just keep coming back.
It is very difficult to come back after a long absence. It is also very hard to start up again as a white belt and learn basics all over again. I know part of martial arts is humility and patience, so I am making the most of it. I just look at my time learning basics again as my way of getting back into shape. I sure need it.
My best friend who taught with me at my school also left and never came back. He started a family shortly after we sold the school and between work, raising kids and general family life, he has not been able to find time for himself to start back up again. He is teaching his kids privately though. So I guess in that respect, he has not completely quit.
People quit because they don’t want to do it anymore and the reasons vary from lack of impetus, to poor relationships, to you name it.
People quit at a lot of things. It’s not important really.
lol your becoming such a nihilist DJ. 
“nothing matters…life is meaningless…” you sound like me in Junior High.
i can’t say i blame you with the impending sequel to WW2
I think people quit for a lot of different reasons.
The main reason I think is, it stops being fun.
[QUOTE=Chief Fox;736606]I think people quit for a lot of different reasons.
The main reason I think is, it stops being fun.[/QUOTE]
What I found is that teachers tend to do bad stuff from time to time.
Like trying to talk you into private lessons to make more $ off of you and not teaching you stuff in the regular classes to force you into privates.
Or stringing you along by not teaching much so they can make $ off you longer.
Or making you essentially teach for free in exchange for promotion or continuing in the school.
Or playing one student off against another for political reasons, like promoting one student over another because they brought a new student or did something nice for the teacher, trying to make the other student bring in new students or do something nice for the teacher.
Or having their students teach instead of teaching themselves when you paid for their teaching.
Or lying to you about what they really know or don’t know.
Or teaching you stuff off of videos they didn’t really learn from a real teacher.
Or basically running a McDojo factory school with some facets of all of the above.
So it isn’t always the student loses interest, but sometimes the teacher/school becomes a bad/unethical teacher/environment.
[QUOTE=lunghushan;736607]What I found is that teachers tend to do bad stuff from time to time.
Like trying to talk you into private lessons to make more $ off of you and not teaching you stuff in the regular classes to force you into privates.
Or stringing you along by not teaching much so they can make $ off you longer.
Or making you essentially teach for free in exchange for promotion or continuing in the school.
Or playing one student off against another for political reasons, like promoting one student over another because they brought a new student or did something nice for the teacher, trying to make the other student bring in new students or do something nice for the teacher.
Or having their students teach instead of teaching themselves when you paid for their teaching.
Or lying to you about what they really know or don’t know.
Or teaching you stuff off of videos they didn’t really learn from a real teacher.
Or basically running a McDojo factory school with some facets of all of the above.
So it isn’t always the student loses interest, but sometimes the teacher/school becomes a bad/unethical teacher/environment.[/QUOTE]
I think it pretty much goes without saying that if you’re being or feel like you’re being screwed over then you should quit.
[QUOTE=Chief Fox;736610]I think it pretty much goes without saying that if you’re being or feel like you’re being screwed over then you should quit.[/QUOTE]
I guess the point I was trying to make is that it’s very hard to find a school environment where you can stay there for a long time without getting screwed over in some way by the means above.
Very few teachers stay ethical, don’t play stupid political games, and aren’t just in it for the $, and if you do find one, there’s no guarantees they’ll stay that way. At some point when teachers get a bunch of students, stuff like above tends to go on after a while as they get greedy.
And I didn’t even talk about extra fees like promotion fees, testing fees, seminar fees, tournaments and all of that.
It seems like a lot of people quit MA for crap like this. Personally I’ve quit schools because I got tired of the teacher treating his students like an ATM machine and trying to take as many $ from them as possible.
[QUOTE=Chief Fox;736610]I think it pretty much goes without saying that if you’re being or feel like you’re being screwed over then you should quit.[/QUOTE]
Or you could find a new place to train?
[QUOTE=bodhitree;736614]Or you could find a new place to train?[/QUOTE]
Yes, but then it’s hard to progress unless you can find the same style in the area you are in, or if when you move to a new area you have to find a new style.
Personally I quit schools because I got tired of the crap that was going on, and having to start over at every new school.
And then I found out after I had quit that there is an even worse threat at schools which is they aren’t very hygienic.
All in all, not a large percentage of people stick with MA in the long run, and it’s not hard to understand why given all the money sucking schools out there.
Hey – there’s a new insult. Instead of mother f*****, money sucker. All you money sucking leeches.
It totally fits and isn’t even a swear word.
I never quitted.
sometimes I do more. sometimes I do less.
It is your body, health and all.
some types of physical activitities are better than sitting all the time in front of the TV, computer etc etc.
–
All you money sucking leeches
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You seem to state this a lot in a number of different posts. Do you have something specific against schools making money or is it just how they do it??
[QUOTE=Black Jack II;736722].
You seem to state this a lot in a number of different posts. Do you have something specific against schools making money or is it just how they do it??[/QUOTE]
Martial arts students are kindof reliant upon the teacher, are they not? They are trusting the teacher to teach them something useful, to grade their progress, to provide a safe environment for learning and all of that.
If they decide to become teachers in their own right, then they have to usually provide references for their learning for people to take them seriously.
So all of this puts a lot of opportunities for manipulating the situation into the teacher’s hands, and when $ becomes a factor, a lot of teachers can’t seem to help but manipulate the situation into what’s best for them, which is more $ at the expense of the student, the training, the entire situation.
In other words, there’s a lot of opportunities for cheating and blackmail, of a sort.
Whenever teachers start charging and have a business, it seems usually like it’s only a matter of time until all this nonsense goes on. Very few teachers I’ve met don’t abuse the situation somehow by getting lazy, or greedy, or whatever.
In fact, they offer books and courses in how to do this – essentially a lot of the things I put are offered in those courses as how to milk the students for more $$$.
So, yes, I have something against this. It doesn’t seem right to use people in this manner, does it?
Personally, I don’t think martial arts should be taught at all for profit. Because whenever people start charging beyond their expenses for the room and gear, it seems to start causing problems.
I mean, it’s the same thing with other professions, like car mechanics. That’s why they have government licensing and certification for many professions, and the BBB, etc. But in MA it seems that a lot of the leeching behavior has become so common that few people question it anymore.
I can agree with a good amount of that, but it still seems like a large generalization. These teachers, good or bad, have a right to put food on the table, and since its a free society where people vote with there dollar, its kind of a wild west where some of the responsibility should fall on the student, meaning get what you pay for or leave.
I just wanted to see if it was a anti-captialism deal.
[QUOTE=Black Jack II;736749]I can agree with a good amount of that, but it still seems like a large generalization. These teachers, good or bad, have a right to put food on the table, and since its a free society where people vote with there dollar, its kind of a wild west where some of the responsibility should fall on the student, meaning get what you pay for or leave.
I just wanted to see if it was a anti-captialism deal.;)[/QUOTE]
I’m not against capitalism. I’m pro the original Hewlett-Packard way which is getting profit for value added.
If they’re adding value to you, meaning they make you a great martial artist (or at least give you good training and correction – they can’t force you to do it), they act ethically, don’t play any games to get extra $ or screw you over, then that’s perfectly fine if their time is paid for.
But what I’ve found over and over again is that commercial MA schools tend not to do this. Especially as they get bigger they tend to have people teach that aren’t really ready to teach and as a result the instruction suffers a lot.
But yeah, it’s the consumer’s responsibility, at least in part, to walk. But if you want to train MA and all that’s around is crap schools – what do you do then?
But what I’ve found over and over again is that commercial MA schools tend not to do this. Especially as they get bigger they tend to have people teach that aren’t really ready to teach and as a result the instruction suffers a lot
Agreed. Still, whats good to some is all in the eye of the beholder. Some folks join up for some very different reasons than just good training.
[QUOTE=Black Jack II;736752]Agreed. Still, whats good to some is all in the eye of the beholder. Some folks join up for some very different reasons than just good training.[/QUOTE]
IMHO schools should provide good training if they claim to be teaching martial arts. If all they’re teaching is cardio kickboxing, then they should state that.
Most MA schools IMHO are just forms factories for people to work out in, with a little bit of sparring thrown in for those that want it. (Read TKD and most karate schools).
I mean, TKD doesn’t even acknowledge that most of their forms are based off of Shotokan or even know the applications for those forms. Of course, karate doesn’t always admit that most of their forms are based off of Okinawan forms, or know the apps for them either.