Well we all know pek kwar has 100+ forms and tai shing has 5 forms; but how many forms do tai shing pek kwar have?
ok the entire system probably has a little less than 200 forms. But the current holder of the system Sifu Chan Sau Chung only knows 128 forms. Apparently there used to be a guy that knows 150 forms, but he passed away and those forms died with him.
so after they fused tai shing (5) forms and pek kwar (100+ forms mayb 200) you’re saying “tai shing pek kwar” has 120-150 ish forms? shouldn’t it be far less? and the forms he learned aren’t they either tai shing or pek kwar.. tai shing pek kwar is it’s own system
So with “only” 128 forms, how are his applications? I have heard he does not teach any!
Jake 
He had applications on the video I bought… I wouldn’t imagine he’d teach application to video students and not personal students 
I studied Pek Gwa with Y C Wong, he learned it from Gan Duk Hoi, who is Chan Sau Chung’s teacher. Gan Duk Hoi said there are only 3 Pek Gwa hand forms, a broadswrod and a spear. There are the 5 monkey forms and a “synthetic” monkey with all 5 characteristics. Teh rest of “Dai Sing Pek Gwa Myuhn” is actually Black Tiger, which Gan Duk Hoi learned from his father-in-law…
Still, I never heard there were more than 100 forms. I had a training brother studying with Chan Sau Chung in HK in teh 1980’s and there were not that many forms THEN…
Thanks for showing me the light sifu ross you da MAN! is it possible for you to name the forms?? .__. since .. i’m really really curious 
The Pek Gwa hand sets are Pek Gwa fist, Pek Gwa palm and Pek Gwa leg… I never learned the spear or broadsword and don’t even know the names. Sorry
ohhh ok i misunderstood what you meant then. I stand corrected. Ya lkfmdc is right. There are 3 fist forms, which are Pek kwar 1, 2, 3. Apparently the 3rd one is where most of the fighting techniques are hidden. I thought your question was how many forms does tai shing pek kwar have in total…
Hmmm, I’d heard that also, but wasn’t sure if it were true or rumor. Ross do you happen to have a name on the father in law? It’s funny because we have alot of Monkey in Black Tiger, that always kinda surprised me.
jeff:)
sifu ross you have stated “There are the 5 monkey forms and a “synthetic” monkey with all 5 characteristics.” are the 5 monkey forms lost, drunken, wood, stone, and tall? do you kno the name o the “synthetic” one or you have no idea? thanks
Yup, the five monkey shapes are tall, wood, stone, lost and drunken… teh synthetic one I forget the name, it was one of the ones my si-hing learned in HK under Chan Sau Chung, pretty basic, but since you don’t even smell the real 5 for years, he was anxious to learn it
Gan Duk Hoi’s father-in-law’s name is probably buried in Chan Sau Chung’s little red book… that could take a while to find, go through and get an answer… oh, that book is the one fake Paulie Zink had translated and ripped off word for word over the past few years. Ironiclly, it was my Si-Hing who gave Zink the book!
Mr. Ross,
Do you know if Y.C. Wong knows any of the Black Tiger forms? And if so, did you ever learn any of the Black Tiger forms from him?
Thanks for answering my question also, i might just buy Zinks book now to find out that info.LOL
I know it has to be cheeper than CSC’s :o
jeff:)
Tai Shing Pek Kwar,
I know GM Chan Sau Chung very well, will see him this new years in Hong Kong, and I have trained with his student Master Chow Keung, who I believe to be an incredible Martist…
They call the different hand sets Pek kwar road 1, 2 & 3… I know both 2 and 3…
They also have a Dun Da (Short Strike), much different then Bak Siu Lum’s… Has that Pek Kwar flare, jumping and turning gwa-choy pek-choys… very powerfull…
The sword is called simply “Pek Kwar Dahn Do”, GM Kwan Tak Hoi taught this set to GM Ku Yu Jerng, that is why most Northern Shaolin schools have this set also…
I also have seen the Hak Fu Moon performed several times, looks nothing like hung gar, to me it resembles Pek Kwar more with the direction changes similar to Pek Kwar road 3…
I also know a set called Lin Wan Cheung (continuos spear)… They also have a Seh Mah Cheung (snake head spear)…
I know a set from them called Serng Gahn (double metal rods)…
To me, they all seem to have similar movements based from the same system…
I will ask more questions while in Hong Kong, I will be staying with the monkey guys for 2 weeks…
check out this site for info, you must read chinese though…
Joe
Contrary to popular belief, outside of a few forms and techniques Hak Fu Muhn looks “NOTHING” like Hung Kuen (Hung Gar). We don’t even use fu jow (tiger claw) that much within Black Tiger like most would think. Most ppl when they see Hak Fu Muhn probably would never guess that’s what they’re seeing. Outside of a few known Black Tiger sets most ppl would not know Black Tiger if you showed them. Thus the problem with soooo many ppl claiming it.
I’m still interested in finding out how Monkey found it’s way into Black Tiger though…We have some distinct forms within BT not just a few techniques or mimicking.
Joe,
What do you mean by “it resembles Pek Kwar more with the direction changes similar to Pek Kwar road 3…”??? I don’t think i’ve ever seen Pek Kwar road 3, so i’m a bit curious.
jeff:)
Hi Jeff,
From what I have seen of Hak Fu Moon, I have seen some videos, I think it was you that posted them a while back… To me Black Tiger definitely was a southern art … and I could see the use of stance and hands similar to Hung and the many offshoots…
Pek Kwar is a northern art, and Kwan Tak Hoi exchanged with many masters… Gene Ching put a nice article about a form in their curiculumn where your hands are tied together… Apparently, Kwan Tak Hoi met a descendant of Wu Song mountain who is related to a legendary hero who fought off opponents with his hands tied… Alot of groundwork, Kwan Tak Hoi’s Day Tong was pretty good, so he was able to learn from this other master, and passed him some pek kwar sets…
In the black tiger in their style I see some double tiger strikes at the collar bone area that i dont see in the hung stuff usually, CLF has this way of striking, I may be wrong and Hung has it too… But the direction changes I am referring to are striking and stepping in while changing the feet to the corners…
When done at normal speed it seems to have some stomping, charcteristic in some northern styles…
Also if I remember correctly… there was some jump and spins… To me I would say its definitely Northern… I will ask more and try to get some info for you Jeff… I know you are into Black Tiger so I will do my best to get some info on this particular tiger for you…
Take care…
Joe
Yes, i posted a couple of the forms that resembled Hung Kuen for ppl to see.
What most ppl don’t know is, that when Su Hak Fu created Black Tiger. He created it from 17 different styles both Northern and Southern. Our Night Tiger set (Ye Fu Kuen) many say looks like Choy Lay Fut and our Gum Gong Kuen (Golden Buddha) is 100% northern shaolin. We usually only talk about the Hung resemblence, because most ppl don’t know about the other arts within Black Tiger.
Most people only know of the fact that it came from the same Sil Lum Tiger claw system that bore Hung Gar. Su Hak Fu took what he felt was the best of these various northern and southern shaolin systems and created his style.
Well, it could have also come from Shantung Black Tiger which is a Northern China Black Tiger style… The stepping you speak of sounds like stepping we do though. In Sil Lum Hak Fu Muhn we skip,shuffle,hop,jump,stomp, etc… with our stepping also.
Thanks for all your help Joe!!
It was actually “you” that help me find my Black Tiger sifu although, Be it by accident. I worked at the North Lauderdale Home Depot not far from your school. I came in to speak with you and Master Li Siu Hung, you showed me around and talked to me and showed me the Kung Fu Qigong issue with Li Siu Hung on the cover. That issue was about Drunken Choy Lay Fut , i also told you that i had met Grandmaster Lee Koon Hung at the tournament you guys had in 1994 in weston and he remembered me anytime he saw me afterwards. Which meant alot to me, that a man of his stature would remember a scrub like me.:o
I was the big black guy with the gold teeth kinda hard to forget or miss LOL
I actually interupted your workout with Li Siu Hung,sorry! lol
But in that issue i read about Hak Fu Muhn and found out that C.Kuen Woo (my sifu) actually lived in miami. The rest is history.
jeff:)
Joe,
I tried to pm you these pics but it didn’t work right, so i’ll upload them here.
Hey Joe,
I tried to pm you these pics but it didn’t work right, so i’ll upload them here. I think you and your sifu Li Siu Hung might know some of the CLF Masters and sifu in those pics..
jeff:)
Hey Joe,
I tried to send these pics to you through pm, but it didn’t work. I decided to upload them here so you could see if you or your sifu know any of the CLF sifu and Masters in the pics. This was in Hong Kong in the early 70’s it was for my sigung Grandmaster Wong Cheung. He’s sitting in the middle of pic black_tiger_2 right on the line. My sifu is the fourth person to his right and youngest person sitting in that row. He was 25 at the time of the picture and chairman of the Black Tiger Assoc.
You’ll notice in pic black_tiger_1 Grandmaster Chiu Kao and his wife to the far left, they are the partents of Grandmaster Chiu Chi Ling and Grandmaster Chiu Wai of Hung Gar fame.
thanks for all your help Joe!!
jeff:)