Yeah, from reading about these straightblast gym guys on the various websites, I think the concept of aliveness seems to make sense to me. Doesn’t it just mean that the opponent is resisting and fighting back to varying degrees? So tae kwon do and karate are good examples then , they both spar at varying degrees of intensity sometimes light contact, sometimes full contact, sometimes point stopping sparring, sometimes continous non stop. But, just doing sparring and ( so called fighting drills like JKD, wing chun, kali type street stuff) may not be the be all end all these street guys say, because power and conditioning can be just as much a factor
Sometimes the emporer has no clothes. I’m not against BJJ or other types of grappling systems. I know a little myself. They are great for the ring or “fair” fights with another guy. Just make sure that if the guy you tangle with has friends or weapons, don’t go to the ground. While you get the one guy in a guillotine and begin making like an anaconda, the buddie with a Bowie might get you somewhat distracted by slipping it between your ribs. Some street fighters don’t go to dojos or seminars, but they do know a little Neanderthal Kung Fu.
backbreaker (serious_harm),
you forgot to mention tai chi push hands. And if you train realistically and find yourself using methods other than your style to fight ( like Karate guys who then use boxing when they spar) then you are training the wrong art.
Certain methods of striking are more efficient than others.
Originally posted by Dim Wit Mak
Sometimes the emporer has no clothes. I’m not against BJJ or other types of grappling systems. I know a little myself. They are great for the ring or “fair” fights with another guy. Just make sure that if the guy you tangle with has friends or weapons, don’t go to the ground. While you get the one guy in a guillotine and begin making like an anaconda, the buddie with a Bowie might get you somewhat distracted by slipping it between your ribs. Some street fighters don’t go to dojos or seminars, but they do know a little Neanderthal Kung Fu.
Nobody WANTS to go to the ground, but the reality is that it happens. When it does, you want to know how to get up efficiently. Also, awareness on the ground will help you, should you be down there while fighting multiple attackers.
Originally posted by EvolutionFist
onthselves. You’re not aloud to squat down in Judo or touch the mat, otherwise you lose, ect. This affects the way they aproach the game.
you can definitely touch the mat in Judo. Once you go down, groundwork will begin. If you pin the guy, you must hold him for 25 seconds to end the match. If you submit him, match over. Judo is an action sport though - they don’t like dullness in the fight, so, if after about 10 seconds on the ground, if you’re not making progress toward a pin or submission, they will stand you back up.
It’s important to know the differences between styles, what they are trying to do, how they behave. Otherwise you fall for the Tai Boxer’s trap of leaving his center open (aikido does this too) or you extend on the ground and then you’re done before you’ve started.
If you’re a thai boxer - like a thailand thai boxer - it’s not a trap. you have your elbows to defend your midsection, and if anything manages to hit you, you suck it up and take it. If you notice, they aren’t much for evasion. Also, the legs/elbows will defend kicks that arc to the midsection, e.g. a roundhouse kick, and they will evade or scoop a teep kick.
I abhore fighting in the street. Did that once, got hit by a fugging Escalade. Hurt like a mother.
The SBG has some solid training, but every time I hear the word aliveness, I want to fall asleep and vomit so that I may die and come back and practice some dead OMA and smack the taters out of some of the folks that say aliveness. There must be a better term for active training against resisting opponents. At my school, we generally refer to that as “normal workout.”
I’d love to get some more experience doing some BJJ after I can work out again, at the very least to open my eyes to the ground grappling inherent in Isshinryu Karate. However, ain’t gonna happen. Got this horrible pressure point in my back. If I’m the one in the mount, or sometimes even in the guard, it’s fine, but my back hits the floor, I start flopping like a dead fish. :eek:
So in Judo, if we’re playing the sweeping takedown game (olympics style), when you grab my gi I can squat down, sinking all my weight and if off balance I can put a hand to the mat to balance me?
The purposely open entrance is used by more than Tai Boxers – sometimes against less skilled guys I use it to. I’m sure you know what I’m talking about. They strike into the opening and then you close it down with the elbow getting top position. Not really the way I like to fight, but it’s just another tool.
The reason I’m asking about the Judo though is because I’ve seen tournaments run that way. Same with the TKD. Those rules seem universal. The point I was trying to make was if you can see what a style does not allow, you have found their weakspot. Judo has a hell of a time throwing you if as soon as they grab hold you drop.
Sometimes the emporer has no clothes. I’m not against BJJ or other types of grappling systems. I know a little myself. They are great for the ring or “fair” fights with another guy. Just make sure that if the guy you tangle with has friends or weapons, don’t go to the ground. While you get the one guy in a guillotine and begin making like an anaconda, the buddie with a Bowie might get you somewhat distracted by slipping it between your ribs. Some street fighters don’t go to dojos or seminars, but they do know a little Neanderthal Kung Fu.
oooooh - 2 trolls on one thread, can I handle the excitement. Word of advice dim wit mak - most of the grappling guys on this site have heard these sorts of trolling comments before and are well versed in apropriate responses, if they bother to respond at all to a “classic”. try again.
I think most of you are completely missing the point of the article.
When I read that article, the sense I got was that he was talking about fundementals. In order to eye jab somebody, you will have to be well-versed in stand-up striking. After all, if you can’t even regularly jab a fully resisting opponenet in a full-contact environment in the face, then what on god’s green earth makes you think you’ll be able to pinpoint somebody’s eyes?
If you can’t hold position against a fully resisting opponent well versed in wrestling, then what makes you think you’ll be able to control position long enough to bite and/or gouge?
Etc etc…
That is what he means by delivery systems. If you don’t put yourself in a full-contact environment and continually test a good base level of skills (ie fundementals), then there is no way you’ll be able to apply more complex skillsets right off the bat. You can train all the “fight enders” you want, but you won’t have the “delivery system” needed in order to implement it in a full-contact, fully resistang environment such as the street.
That is why he says Mo Smith could probably take a kung fu technqiue and add it to his repetoir in full contact fighting. He has a high level of skill using basic tools in a full contact environment and thus he has the perception that allows him to figure out exactly when, where, and how to best utilize a complex technique. These people who train in “sport” arts/“simple” arts may not have the level of technical complexity as many TMA’s, but they are well versed in delivering their simple techniques in full contact environments against different opponents from within their own school and outside of it.
Ford Prefect has taken the correct and eye-jabbed the shiznit out of it.
dangit, I was gonna say that. This is what I thought when I read his post:
“Ford has taken the correct and brutalized it with the eye gouge he just added to his repertoire”
Had you been classically trained in the art of Vashryu Post Te, you’d’ve posted first.
PHEER MY L33T $K!77$111
Royce would CHOKE vashryu
Just to make a statement here.. I used an eye gouge in a street setting a few weeks ago, the guy still swung after I put my finger in there, but he couldn’t see me so he missed, then I got sucker punched by one of his friends when the cops showed up.. Oh, and I had taken him down.. we were on the ground when that happend
Originally posted by SevenStar
[B]
Also, awareness on the ground will help you, should you be down there while fighting multiple attackers. [/B]
This may be the most interesting thing said on the thread. I have been doing a qigong lately where you look around alot in different directions while stretching different movements, I am finding I am becoming much more aware of everywhere around me, I can look around me and change where I’m looking more quikly
Originally posted by EvolutionFist
So in Judo, if we’re playing the sweeping takedown game (olympics style), when you grab my gi I can squat down, sinking all my weight and if off balance I can put a hand to the mat to balance me?
Okay, I see what you’re asking now. I’ve never seen anyone do it, but my best guess would be that it’s not illegal. It’s illegal to drag someone down, however. So, As long as you can get to the ground without pulling him down too, it should be fine - unless maybe they see it and think you are trying to drag him down, in which case, they will warn you and stand you back up. subsequent times would result in a chui - a small fraction of a point
Judo has a hell of a time throwing you if as soon as they grab hold you drop.
sweeps…
I guess if someone brings up an unpopular valid point, all a person has to do is dismiss him as a “troll” because someones sacred doctrines have been questioned . I am in the the company of a good many non-trolls, some of them grapplers, who know it is better to stay off the ground against multiple attackers. Of course, over 50% of fights end up on the ground, so not knowing grappling is pretty much on the stupid side. I stick by my original proposition. IF POSSIBLE. it is better to stay off the ground against multiple attackers because the advantage then goes to the multiples . If someone wants to submit this to a poll, I would like to see the results.
Dim Wit Mak,
I will definately agree with you there; the ground is not the place you want to be against multiple attackers. In fact I’d rather not be on the ground in any street confrontation; it’s not about winning a street fight it’s more about surviving.
DWM - That’s exactly how it works on here and other message boards…if you don’t have the EXACT opinion of all the “home boys” on the board, you’re a troll.
They’re just mad because they don’t practice real martial arts, like ninjutsu or Isshinryu.
Originally posted by AshidaKimFan
[B]DWM - That’s exactly how it works on here and other message boards…if you don’t have the EXACT opinion of all the “home boys” on the board, you’re a troll.
They’re just mad because they don’t practice real martial arts, like ninjutsu or Isshinryu. [/B]
I’m kind of new here on the forum, but from what I’ve seen, the most consistent use of “troll” is when someone says something just to get a rise out of them. You know, something like “sometimes the emperor has no clothes.” (implying that the people are blind and myopic whereas the poster alone sees the truth) as opposed to “you bring up some valid points, but I disagree and this is why.”
That said, who are the Home Boys? Are they a 1980’s style old-school rap group? And what’s this about their viewpoints? I’m confused? 