So I’m talkin to one of my judo buddies yesterday, and we were discussing nitro tech and muscle milk (he uses nitro and we both use mucsle milk) vs isopure plus, which I currently use. Isopure has 50 grams of protein in 2 scoops, whereas nitrotech only has 40. He shrugged and said “so? you p!ss it out anyway.” Now, of course I know that the body gets rid of excess protein, but I made the case that you want to take in 1-2g of protein per pound of bodyweight for optimal muscle gains.
He agreed, but said that you still get rid of most of what you take in, as the average person’s body only processes about 20g of protein per hour. The idea is to supersaturate your body with protein so you aren’t at a deficit. “trust me,” he says, “I’m a biology major.” So now I’m thinking - if the body can process 20g per hour, what is the max amount the body can process in a day before it starts getting rid of it? Would it make sense to take a 20g scoop per hour? Theoretically, the body would process it all without getting rid of it.
I’ve never been really clear on where the “utilizes Xg of protein per hour” thing came from. I take in a minimum of 30 grams per meal. Now, I take in food between 6 and 8 times a day, and only two of those are supplements (eggs, hamburger and tuna > sex with a really, really lady-like man). Well, three if you count my during and post-workout Surge. But I don’t.
As far as taking in protein per hour, I don’t think it’s a bad idea at all. That way, the body doesn’t have to use pre-existing protein for energy. Or something. Hell, I’ve been up for 17 hours, 5 of those on the road, and I got 4 hours sleep last night. Why you asking me all these questions?
Oh, and trust me. I’m a CFT through the ISSA, working on my CSCS, my BS, and your mom.
Never seen data for how much protein can be processed per hour.
However I have seen research that indicates that hard training athletes may need 1.8g/kg of protein per day. So that is close to 1g/pound. Would not be surprised if more protein were necessary under certain conditions. More probably won’t hurt you, but at a certain point you may want to just push up the carbs and fats to provide additional calories instead of eating more protein, which can get expensive.
Without a caloric surplus you will just use protein for gluconeogenesis(turning protein into blood sugar). Caloric surplus is the biggest nutritional factor in gaining muscle.
Just buy the cheapest protein that you can stomach without problems.
*Maybe don’t eat an ungodly amount of protein, just to be sure
I’ve heard all sorts of figures. I really don’t know. We’ve discussed this over at Anabolic Extreme before, too, and the general consensus is usually “eat lots of protein.”
I have pure WPi shakes on occasion, but really - you do p!ss most of it out.
Anyone with a reasonable, balanced diet is usually getting more than enough protein.
Obviously athletes like us need more, so protein supplements can help, but remember - it’s not just a case of “any excess protein gets p!ssed out, so don’t worry…”
It takes a lot of work for your kidneys and liver to process these substances - constantly bombarding them with huge amounts of excess is really a recipe for renal failure.
I always thought that too much protein can blow out the kidneys. Is that wrong? Doesn’t it take about 8 hours for protein to digest, when are you taking in all this?
they are teaching it in universities. Like I said, my boy is a biology major. One of the other judo guys is a nurse and he confirmed it. I then asked my ultra hot nurse friend, and she said the same thing.
Well, three if you count my during and post-workout Surge. But I don’t.
surge? they still sell those where you live?
Hell, I’ve been up for 17 hours, 5 of those on the road, and I got 4 hours sleep last night. Why you asking me all these questions?
hehe. sounds like a typical night for me. I won’t sleep again until Sunday. I will train after leaving my 9 - 5, then I have to be at the club at 10:30. I will get off at 5am and have to be at work by 9am, only to be back at the club at 10:30pm. When I get off saturday morning, I will have to run errands, possibly train with some guys and be at the club at 10:30. I’ll get off around 6:00am and will train with the power lifters at 12:30. We will finish up around 3, and then I can sleep.
Oh, and trust me. I’m a CFT through the ISSA, working on my CSCS, my BS, and your mom.
considering you like very lady like men, you would probably like my “mom”.
but at a certain point you may want to just push up the carbs and fats to provide additional calories instead of eating more protein, which can get expensive.
right, but in terms of muscle growth, those two won’t help you much. Also, cans of tuna are not expensive at all.
Caloric surplus is the biggest nutritional factor in gaining muscle.
yeah, it’s the biggest factor in gaining weight, period.
Ah. Makes sense. I was never taught that (I was a biology major for two years, then switched to Exer. Sci.), but I was taught no more than .8g/kg bodyweight, and absolutely NO protein supplements. And that Gatorade was next to Godliness. And lifting weights was bad. All of that came from a nurse/nutritional counselor who worked at the local hospital rehab’ing the obese.
The counselor for my major, though, who has doctorates out the “yin yang” says he’s never seen a study backing up what the nutritional program says. He’s seen studies as relates to amino acid levels after meals, training, etc, but nothing which would conclusively say Xg/hour.
surge? they still sell those where you live?
Oh yeah, the soda. Unfortunately, no. Surge, as in the Biotest carb/protein drink. I used to get exceptionally hungry during my workouts, so much so that I would start to shake. With that stuff, I’m fine.
Considering you like very lady like men, you would probably like my “mom”.
that’s not true. protein is processed by the liver, and it’s byproduct - ammonia - is converted to urea and passed to the kidneys. protein is too big to pass through the kidneys. If you are passing protein through them, then you already have damaged kidneys. that said, the urea is mixed with water, which will make you pee. you will dehydrate if you don’t drink a lot of water. The rest of the unuable material is crapped out.
As far as the 8lbs thing, are you referring to what you always hear vegetarians talk about? Something like it takes 8 hours to digest 1lb of red meat?
well **** im gonna start spreading out my post work out two scoops of whey (40grams protien not including the whole milk) over an hour or so. just to be safe.
I got slammed a year or two ago when I said that I understood that taking in more than 20g at a time was wastefull as you couldn’t process more than that at one go.
seems like if you are doing the 5-6 feedings a day at 20 grams then you should hit your need.
in the reading I’ve done the 1g/pound was for high end athletes…I think even if you are going to class every day and weight training some part of your body every day most of us (certainly not me) don’t classify as hard core athletes.
I supplement with right around 100 gram in a shake that I consume throughout the day in basically 5 servings. On top of that I have a bar for breakfast w/ 10g.
Lunch will usually have 20+ grams and dinner will be usually 30ish just because I like meat.
so, 160 grams or so of protein a day for me at 253…lean body weight is probably only 210 or so (yea, i’m fat )
rips off shirt to show sexy lean body…er atleast from the pecs up and waist down. Need to work on my abs more.
First let me tell you NITRO TECH, CELLTECH, AND MUSLCE MILK IS WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAbreatheAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY OVERPRICED. Are they good, yes, but for the money you can do better with cheaper products. Designer Whey is about $20 a container and you can dress it up how you like, I use the natural version with no added flavors.
As for the “20g per hour” that depends on your body type and activity level it is not standard for everyone. I’m surprised those guys didn’t tell you that.
other good protein sources are:
Edamame-soy bean in the pod. A bag of frozen edamame is about $1.50 and you get 16gs or protein per cup.
Canned salmon- a lil bit more pricey than canned tuna but you get a whole lot more Omega 3 and thats good! (with any canned goods check the sodium level. Some are WAY to much)
Roasted Oats- Cheap. Great whole carbs and protein.
Quinoa- Same as oat meal.
One way to figure out what your intake should be is to take where you want to be. (ie if you are 200lbs and want to be 215lbs) then take about 1~1.5 grams per pound. Then spread it throughout the day. If you want pack on muslce you should really add creatine to your supplementation. Now you nurse friends will say that taking creatine will supress your bodies natural creatine production and thats true but your body will bounce back when you cycle off.
how high is the cholesterol in the Designer Whey and are you concerned about that?
I’d shied away from the high cholesterol when I started doing a daily shake last spring and then had my cholesterol come in at 260 this past june so I’m hyper alert about it.
I’m buying a 90% Isolate from www.bulkfoods.com for about $38 for 5 pounds including shipping…each serving has just 4% cholesterol versus the 20-30% I found in most of the $20-$25 per 5 pound products on the shelf.
secondly, any concern about the supposed issues with soy protein?
I’ve been thinking about cutting my shake protein half and half with the whey and soy to eliminate more choleterol but wonder about the ‘oleoestrogen’ (sp?)
Designer Whey is about 30mg which about the same as NitroTech.
I am not too worried about it because most of my diet is pretty low in Cholestrol and the highest sources comes form things like Olive Oil, avacados, fish, etc.
I just had a phyisical about a mont ago and my doctor reenforced that you have to be worried about LDL cholesterol. Now they test for both LDL and HDL and you can see how you really stand so 260 may not be as bad as you think.
secondly, any concern about the supposed issues with soy protein?
I’ve been thinking about cutting my shake protein half and half with the whey and soy to eliminate more choleterol but wonder about the ‘oleoestrogen’ (sp?)
From what I last read you don’t need to worry about the estrogen if you are going to do a half and half.
Well, ‘half and half’ means ladyboy in some parts of the worls, so I don’t spose taking soy protein does matter…! :eek:
Oso, read that article I posted again: young soy beans are no problem, provided they’re not from a cheap US GM source designed for pest resistance… Asia’s quoted cheap ones may well be… as most cheap ones in the States will be.
Mystery: Somebody on this forum said it wasn’t 20g/hr but 40g/2 hrs as a good baseline. It was somebody who is usually trusted in these here parts… but can’t remember who
It doesn’t really seem like you have to do protein supplementation. I had a buddy who was really into Arnold Schwarzenegger’s books and he claimed you don’t have to do any protein supplementation.
Anyways, he got really big without any extra protein supplementation and he didn’t even drink milk because he was lactose intolerant and didn’t like the taste of the lactose free milk.
In fact, he got so big so fast that he got these weird stretch marks on his biceps … his girlfriend was always putting lotion on them.
He went from benching like 120 to benching like 225 in about 4 months, then when I saw him after a year (that’s when his girlfriend was doing all the lotion), he was benching like 350 with 10 reps. Then he was like, “Check this out, spot me.” (He never used a spotter before), and then he did 400 1 time.
Anyways, all he did I think was eat chicken once in a while and sandwiches. So I don’t think you need any extra protein.
You do need extra protein. You just don’t necesarrily need it from protein powders.
If you eat a good diet then its not needed but the powders and shakes are really for convience.
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