knifefighter
“a little book knowledge in reading comprehension and retention might do you a bit of good”
Whats this? Cant stand to get mobbed by dissenters here on the KFO forum? Not so pleasant when your the recipient huh? Your such a childish a$$hole knifefighter. And by the way I have a Masters Degree in Hydrology. What have you got? I hate it when obvious idiots get condescending.
jesus ****ing christ, man. you can jump on someone, but you don’t have to stomp on him repeatedly. he did just offer it as food for thought.
knife: sorry i came across a bit *****y. the stick that’s been up my bum lately may have just shifted.
well… predators are also invisible … Can see heat & have those nasty plasma guns as well as super sharp claws…
Funny thread. 
Really though, it could spark some interesting conversation if you let it…
Personally, I would strongly agree with the foundational animal comparison underlying the quote. Although, to begin with, we’ve really got to define some terms which are thrown around all too loosely. It’s impossible to discuss when no one agrees on basic definitions. For instance, what is grappling, and what is striking? People alternately use the word grappling to describe groundfighting, any submission/grasping/breaking technique, any technique at body contact range, or a range of techniques including throwing and sweeps. These are all pretty different.
For instance, I consider grappling to mean submission (or submission brought to it’s extreme - choking, breaking, etc). For that reason, I would call myself a striker. However, the basis of my technique is to invade someone’s space, and control them so their posture and balance are broken. So maybe I’m a grappler? But I don’t use any submissions…
So far as the original animal example goes - I’ve never understood how anyone can consider ‘striking’ (in it’s most limited definition - that being, maintaining distance to strike then retract; repeat) a viable combat strategy against anyone, except perhaps someone who you absolutely dwarfed in skill and attributes. From my point of view, if you want to defeat someone (or even prevent being defeated yourself) you HAVE to get in there and break their posture, that’s how you win. And that’s what these predators are doing. Although I agree with the original author’s premises, I disagree with his argument. What these predators are doing bears (pun intended 
) absolutely no resemblance to, for instance, BJJ’s strategy. Again, the confusion arises due to the neglect of properly defining our terms - ‘grappling.’ These predators are NOT going for submissions. These predators are NOT bringing something to the ground (except when it’s allready defeated and it’s time to eat). What they ARE doing is establishing dominant position, breaking their opponents posture, then aggresively attacking with their strongest weapon. So long as we’re going to make this argument, this strategy is resembles much more strongly that advocated by say, baguazhang or silat than BJJ. Yes, it’s true that you often see BJJ proponents advocating the ‘ground and pound’, which is more similar to what the animals are doing. However, I’m under the impression that in many cases this is contrary to the original principles of BJJ or grappling, and more an artifact of vale tudo - for example, I can think of several examples of someone ground and pounding from within their opponent’s closed guard - surely not the approach advocated by BJJ, nor that which it’s training addresses. Although, I will glady stand corrected, since my experience in the matter is quite limited.
…Bof!..TROLL!:rolleyes:And even worse: Not even Ralek’s caliber!
Go back in your cage …Predator.
i guess one thing i’d wholly believe could be gleaned from the human/predator comparison is that when a lion goes for its prey, it goes all out, because if it doesn’t, it may not get another meal. the same idea should apply to us. if someone is threatening our life, we **** well better go all out, because if we don’t, our chances of getting that next meal diminish greatly.
Wolves and cats use the tools they were given. It’s hard to bite another animals neck when you are standing up. Interesting analogy, but it is not absolute.
Paul,
Thanks for the info! Would it be fair to assume that they grapple or strike as the situation/opponent dictates ?
Yes, I enjoyed Fransisco “Chico” Bueno’s methodical stalking of Igor Vovchanchyn. I also enjoyed the stealthy approaching, slaughtering, and devouring technique of John Lewis when he fought Jens Pulver.
Other examples of invincible grappler hunters stalking helpless striker prey are Dan Henderson vs. Renzo Gracie, Vanderlei Silva vs. Kazushi Sakuraba I, and my personal favorite - a ferocious Nobuhiko Takada vs. the cowering Mirko “Cro Crop” Filopovich.
Lemme see if I understand this guy’s point - because Lions in the jungle tackle their prey, that means striking sucks? Maybe I’m just too stupid to follow this guy’s logic. He sounds kind of like Matt “Monkeys are so strong because they do bodyweight exercises” Furey.
On a related note - has anyone ever seen a group of lions try to take down a hippo? It’s pretty god**** funny, the hippo’ll be running for water with two or three lions clinging to its back.
Jockwurst: Christ you’re annoying. Do you just lurk until Knifefighter shows up so you can flame him?
Jockworst:
How can people be dissenting with me when it’s not my opinion?. As I said before (your reading comprehension problem seems to be kicking in again), this is someone else’s take, as I believe in both grappling and striking. Once again (s l o w l y for the reading impaired), I don’t have a preference for one vs the other as each has its place in different situations. As a matter of fact, I pretty much agree with what most of the others are saying here.
A Masters in Hydrology? Is that supposed to be impressive? BTW, all my post graduate work was in the field of Exercise Science so I would guess that is probably more relevant to most discussions of the martial arts than is hydrology.
OJ:
Not a troll. I just thought the animal analogy was interesting, just as it is interesting to see the examples here of predators that don’t “grapple”.
BTW, did you consider this a troll because it contained an opinion that might not be true in the real world or because it was about grappling being “better” than striking?
This is good marketing! Take a look at this clip .This does not means that my brand of soap does not cleans as white as your’s!
weird. speaking of soap, the only brand that has ever left a fimly residue on my skin was zest, the one soap that claims to not do so.
anyhoo, the video was blah, but it could have used something resembling structure or point.
I don;t know who this guy is, but they lack a basic knowledge of biology.
As people pointed out, not all predators grapple. The ones who grapple are those who are not capable of killing their prey with a single blow, and thus risk the possibility of the prey escaping.
I think that says more about the grappling vs striking than the original quote, wouldn’t you?
BTW, my favorite animal is the crocodile. 3 out of 4 an animal hit square by a croc dies almost immediately. The fourth one gets dragged out into the water and death rolled. It’s also notable that the 4th time generally occurs when the target animal is already in the water, crossing a river or some crap like that.
Looks like striking and grappling together works the best to me.
Man, I love watching a croc hit something. Sometimes, on discovery or animal planet, they show on that isn’t slowed down. 1 second little baby wildebeest is drinking some water, then there’s a huge spray of water, then there’s no more wildebeest.
Nice.
Have you guys ever seen two tigers fight? They use a mix of striking and grappling (well, as close to MMA as tigers can get anyway). Their strikes are very heavy handed, and come in vicious combos, then they move in for the takedown. It’s pretty scary to think of what the business end of a tiger would look like to another tiger. :eek:
Also, dolphins are very aggressive strikers, and can do a lot of damage to sharks and other sea bullies (although I saw a discovery channel show that portrayed “evil dolphins” as well…it was weird seeing dolphins bully other sea creatures for fun).
As for the whole debate, I think it’s odd how we like to use animals (particularly predators), to draw physical, mental, and sometimes tactical traits, but when it points to any semblance of grappling, we start looking for other striking animals. I know I did this, even though I do agree that the methods of predators are quite effective, unless you’re the prey (which if you’re training for self defense, that’s kind of a given). hmmmm
This is an interesting debate once you scrape all the ego and testosterone out of the way.
BTW Shin, I’ve seen a croc hit a guy on the leg out of instinct, and didn’t even grab onto the guy. He just wacked him with his upper jaw, and the guy had the most gruesome lacerations down his leg. That to me was impressive. Crocs indeed do have some tremendous power with their head, or their tail.
Big Cats?
Lions frequently strike at thier prey breaking thier back and taking them down before they grapple.
I have to tell you that sounds an awful lot to me like striking someone very hard and then going in for the kill. I have no objections to that.
Cheetahs will make a running strike to thier preys neck usually, and as Braden stated Tigers tend to do both.
I have ONE very important doctrine that I believe in that is very simple. Use whatever works. If a situation calls for a strike and you HAVE to grapple because that is what you BELIEVE IN then you are a fool. The same goes for strikers.
I have seen many fighters and the ones that were at the top of my list tended to be flexible and let the situation dictate how they responded. IMHO, most situations call for a MIX of the two but that is how I train and it is PAINFULLY obvious to me.
I might remind people that Knifefighter is just posting something but I think you are getting a kick out of the thread… I am. 
I find it amusing that this debate is STILL going on but I suppose that is the nature of the martial arts… “MY style is better then yours!”, etc.
I liked the animal comparison though so I figured I would throw my two cents into the arena.
Oh, Jockwurst… lighten up a little bit man!
Does anyone have those pictures of polar bears fighting? There was one of the polar bear on the left landing a mean right, one where he had the double underhooks, and he was pulling guard in the third one.
“…is that supposed to be impressive?”
I don’t know? You tell me what a Masters in Geoscience from the University of Chicago is worth? Where did you go to school? No let me guess…Harvard, M.I.T. Yale, Oxford..etc… I’m sure you’ll find some way to best that one or just create some imaginary place thats supposed to be super accredited and highly respected. knifefighter, I dare say that I make more as a state water manager than you do in whatever sorry field you ended up in. Go blow yourself a$$hole.
Oh does six figures mean anything to you. Again I repeat you’re a joke. Your not even in the same ball park academically as I. Exercise science (giggle) wahtever.
Jockwurst,
Dude, chill out. There is no need to start bragging about how much money you make on a public forum. If I were you, I’d consider editing your posts because they make you look like an @ss.-ED
P.S.-I have seen Knifefighter compete and I am pretty sure whether he chooses to grapple or strike, he could kick your @ss either way.
Jockwurst, according to your profile your birthdate is April 27, 1985. Are you some kind of child prodigy or something, to have a degree at such a young age?