hi jim…hhhmmmmm… perhaps it is my limited knowledge of other southern kung fu systems that has me on an incorrect assumption…i wont know until i see other southern systems…\
im not saying w.c is shaolin…im not saying weng chun white crane is shaolin…i dont know enough about true shaolin to say anything either way…and i have seen no conclusive evidence to suggest other..
understand what you mean on the numerology…i thoght you meant..108 movements to the jong or 36 points or ect…well perhaps many things were left out of w.c because that name…or that ordering or…that whatever… had nothing to do with being able to fight someone …w.c could really represent the striping down to basic principle …a mother only gives so much to her son…the father gives just us much…so you could end up with a facelift and not look as pretty as mother did…lol
the jing is the key to figuring it out, imo…as i mentioned white crane is one of the only arts to list soft/hard jing as its main method…and w.c does as well…i dont think this is a fluke…
b
numerology is ubiquitous in TCMA- not just in Southern systems.
I once wrote an article on this for IKF. In any case not just
WC- forms in Ip man’s attempt to organize involves 108…but
3s are sam pai fat— and in some lines organize things by numbers too…IMO does not necessarily show a martial connection with other styles- just organizing habits in many TCMA.
Chen lao jia and Yang old form has 108 motions, 18 hands of lohan…
broad cultural habits and narrow gauge causal links are two quite
different things.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by byond1
[B]
hendrik–what type of stance’s does the yik kam slt use??? [/B]
Starts similar with the 12zhuang… Equal shoulder…
transforms as needed… to clamp the yang and raise the ying.. then … as it is…
Becarefull, Zhuang and Horse stance might or might not be the same things…
Revisit Jim’s post and my answer to him…
“i know that fa kune uses some sai ping mah and bow and arrow…”
which fa kuen?
how many Fa kuen are there in WCK?
Why is it a WCK?
Some says it is the origin from Shao Lin
some says it is the teaching of Ng Mui.
some did it as CLF
some did it as Hung Kuen…
I don’t see there is a kuen,
I don’t see there is a stance.
There are only flower of the tide Under the traveling red boat
according to Cho Dak Sheng…
Hendrik
Originally posted by byond1
..108 movements to the jong or 36 points or ect…
What if the 36 of SLT related stuffs has to do with 3x the 12 medirians. But not those Buddhist … Hahaha.
Hey I might be wrong. Only a small detail different view 
Hendrik
Originally posted by byond1
what has been modified is the bowing----ala sow hung…many modern wc dont ustilize the 3 bows or even 1 bow..lol…i have no idea how many of the wc lineages still keep this body characteristic…y.m doesnot…
Brian,
some questions…for fun..
“what has been modified is the bowing”
There are Taizhu…
There are white crane…
There are Tashen…
There also a saying " lowering the head bend the waist the transmision in not advance."
white crane bow?
is it hum hung or sow hung?
How do we know which is which? LOL.
winding jing which is derived from shaking jing ..which is derived from steady jing is the cornerstone of one of the 3 major methods of inch jing…which has many interesting commonalities with the jing found in chum kiu(yiu lik) and biu tze … [/QUOTE]
To vibrate, one end needs to be station, one end needs to… to create standing wave…
how do you define inch jing?
How do you issue inch jing?
Hendrik
Jim,
Not the same Jim. 
As it describes, gentlely subdue the enemy, within split of an inch..
Hero is undefeatable, He knows others and others not knowing him…
Find the 6 directions resultant force as in Yee Chuan.
. …the sun… the silk floating in the sky…the tidal wave in the sea…
gentlely subdue …simple…a vision , an effortless act… a dream …a fantasy… or a reality?
what do you think?
Hello Hendrik,
While my skill in Yi Chuan is extreme basics I can say that I believe it has to be the reality of a “true” master. Would this not be the essence (or part of the essence) of the teaching of the principle of Sung (let go)? Also, YJKYM would be neutral to blend in any direction but how many can do the above is the bigger question IMO?
Wang Xiang Zhai’s refinement of the excess to the root thru its Jam Jong was brilliant. Develop the mind and eliminate thoughts that allow you to be in a sort of void is the only way they feel one can truly subdue/be one with your opponent.
I am still tying to scrath the surface with the Yi Chuan but find it to be an amazing process/concept. Would Miu Shun have the similar idea with his development in your opinion?
Regards,
JRsez: Hello Hendrik,
While my skill in Yi Chuan is extreme basics I can say that I believe it has to be the reality of a “true” master. Would this not be the essence (or part of the essence) of the teaching of the principle of Sung (let go)?
Yes- but I am far from convinced that Yi Chuan folks have an edge over good wing chun folks as far as “martial applications”. Ditto with lots of taichi folks.
Hey Joy!
Totally agree!
Peace,
Hi JIm,
"Would this not be the essence (or part of the essence) of the teaching of the principle of Sung (let go)? Also, YJKYM would be neutral to blend in any direction but how many can do the above is the bigger question IMO? " -J
IMHO, once the concept and vision is bring in. The implementation will arise. Then, later all will be able to do it. -HS
“Wang Xiang Zhai’s refinement of the excess to the root thru its Jam Jong was brilliant. Develop the mind and eliminate thoughts that allow you to be in a sort of void is the only way they feel one can truly subdue/be one with your opponent.”
Sure, Wang spent years on these stuffs after he has experienced lots of different things…or arts.
However, there are things which one cannot past down due to experience limitation of the students. It is a communication transfer data issues. That part usually is a broken link and lost the art. —HS
“I am still tying to scrath the surface with the Yi Chuan but find it to be an amazing process/concept. Would Miu Shun have the similar idea with his development in your opinion?”
IMHO, there are only a few basic core principle. Yi Chuan describe the power cultivation with the resultant or “fighting” force, Cheng Lik fasion, Chen Man-Ching describe the power cultivation with the swiming in the air, Chen TaiJi describe the power cultivation with the reel silk… and 12 zhuang or Miu Shun SLT describe the power cultivation with 3 dimentions and 6 polarities.. Everyone uses different models to describe their stuffs.
I see all these are more or less the same stuffs in general with some differences with what they want to achive..or thier uniqueness in thier characteristic. So, there is a general characteristics and a particular characteristics kind of deal.
However, this sure is very different then the idea of just stand there, with two fingers wide between knees… which is dead static. so there are a break a part with general hard art.
In addition, when some run out of implementation methodology, using Chan or Dao or mysty unclear or double talks or legends.. to cover up the lack of technology. One always can see these if one watch carefully.
I have a chance to meet a few patriachs. Those people are very down to earth in Details people. Even the Chan patriach. Very very detail and down to earth. Very clear. Because it is very clear thus it is simple and natural.
Things are very dynamic stuffs. not static at all.
But dynamic doesn’t need a preparation for dynamic and does has to stop the breathing before action… it is crispy, sharp and clean but dynamic and continously natural.. and there is a different between sharp and hard or forcefully muddy… IMHO -HS
Hendrik
white crane bow?
is it hum hung or sow hung?
How do we know which is which? LOL.
…lol…sorry…i dont get your joke…i dont know what you mean by hum hung…
winding jing which is derived from shaking jing ..which is derived from steady jing is the cornerstone of one of the 3 major methods of inch jing…which has many interesting commonalities with the jing found in chum kiu(yiu lik) and biu tze … [/QUOTE]
To vibrate, one end needs to be station, one end needs to… to create standing wave…
…sure…what i have been workijng on is my core strength as well as the yiu lik (waist)…loosening my upper diapram and getting it to drop, building chi in my dan tian( had problems and had to back track with my training), pulling up my hui yin/ shincter muscles to seal in chi and lock upper and lower body structure and rooting. i spend alot of time on this…building the chi up at my core…all of these things are imperative to shaking force…i wave my spine vertically via abdominal wave combined with sunk chest…expand chest…with proper pelvis motion to start the wave…also sai ying sao and “proper”- kuen faat everyday…
how do you define inch jing?
" generating force on a very small curve"
How do you issue inch jing?
…several differant methods ..in general…contraction and expansion of various muscle groups with proper juen mah torque..with a rubber band effect with my tendons…the yi…my intention and how i support my motions with chi from my dan tian…instead of using local chi as in hard jing styles…my pull back is faster…spiral is tighter…its in my timing of how i “whip” my motion that seperates my longer slower wave jing to a tighter penetration faster jing and of cource using straight line mixed with circular..as my context
got to go library close ..now
brian
Brian,
That is still hard Bow Jing.
This type of Jing will not sustain after a person is over 40. Generally. IMHO
Hendrik
hi hendrik!!.. it is a mixture of hard bow and soft bow…im being more “hard” because im still developing the strength in my ligaments and tendons…had to proceed slowly because of an old back injury…i agree fully that as i develope i need to be softer…hard jing is for the young man..which is still am..lol…sort of..lol…
Originally posted by byond1
hi hendrik!!.. it is a mixture of hard bow and soft bow…im being more “hard” because im still developing the strength in my ligaments and tendons…had to proceed slowly because of an old back injury…i agree fully that as i develope i need to be softer…hard jing is for the young man..which is still am..lol…sort of..lol…
hi brian,
In CMA, dominantly, there are only two direction of training. the hard bow or the soft silk. so, if one doesn’t get the soft silk. it default to hard bow. nothing wrong with it. personals’ choice.
hard bow can train ligament and tendons but it can’t train internal organs. soft silk can penetrate from surface to deep inside.