Just watched a video of Ip Ching doing Chi Sao with Samuel Kwok…I’m gonna have to go with Ip Ching and Samuel Kwok with still much props to Ip Chun.
Moses
my teachers sifu barry lee is the best ive seen or felt. But any wsl or lok yui teacher would top my list
Definetly Grand Master Leung Ting. He is an extraordinary man. Dai-Sifu Emin Boztepe could be the second greatest Wing Tsun man i have ever seen. One of my friends who is studying under Sifu Murat Kaplan has joined few seminars of Grand Master Augustine Fong and he says he is an extremely good Wing Chun practionner. Also he said that Sigung Augustine has a very good sense of humour and he laughes and smiles very oftenly.
But, but, but
Joy,
C’mon. Larry is definitely the top stooge. 
;):D[/QUOTE]
Isn’t Moe’s biu gee and wu sao better than Larry’s?
joy chaudhuri
kenneth chung
This Sifu demonstrates a pretty good palm strike technique on his assistant.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz2szNKnsXo
(pretty much sums up how pointless this thread is!)
Jackie Chan
Bruce LeeRoy :rolleyes:
Throwing wings in Chum Kiu
what are the throwing wings in chum kiu used for? Always kindof been a mystery to me any thoughts?
ballistic bong sao’s aka line clearing methods to end the fight quickly…
David Cheung
[QUOTE=Katsu Jin Ken;883447]what are the throwing wings in chum kiu used for? Always kindof been a mystery to me any thoughts?[/QUOTE]
Also something to consider is: Where are your hands in the form BEFORE and AFTER the technique is performed. I think a lot of the techniques are situational. That’s why in Chum Kiu, before you perform the double low-Bong Sau, most lineages drop their hands first.
Eg: If your hands are down and an opponent strikes you low, you wouldn’t have the time to bring your arm up and then back down using a Gan Sau…your elbow is already at the perfect height and can fire out with a Low Action Bong quite quickly!
Best,
Kenton
Enough already. We all know that you think your Sifu or Sigung etc is/ are the best ever. Blind love of Sifu and all he teaches is alive and well. I get it.
i dont do wc. so i can say im neutral
i was taught the main use for the double low bong was when someone is grabbing and pulling you keeping your wrist down hence the bigger step this is to firmlte the force without having to be able to lift your wrist. But it is also the first time you are in the proper fighting stance. There are other but less used ideas
[QUOTE=bennyvt;883655]i was taught the main use for the double low bong was when someone is grabbing and pulling you keeping your wrist down hence the bigger step this is to firmlte the force without having to be able to lift your wrist. But it is also the first time you are in the proper fighting stance. There are other but less used ideas[/QUOTE]
If in Wing Chun you’re always attacking the attack, that means that you’re hitting all of the time. Therefore the elbow from the Bong is a type of ‘attack’ that is going after someone hitting you while you’re hitting over top (think Kwan Sau, but the Tan hand is showing a path to hitting). The Bong clears the line of attack just enough…
If someone is grabbing one of your wrists, that’s great! You already know where one of their hands are…so you can just hit them. If they have both hands, Kwan Sau can break the structure but the immediate action is always to hit.
I also think of the stance as a ‘following’ stance or ‘finishing’ stance. Not going to start there, but there is a possibility that I’ll finish there, chasing my opponent. If I have to take larger steps to chase and move, I can move the back leg like in the dummy form.
I can see what you’re saying about the step and Dai Bong, however. I’ve been taught to ‘give in’ to a pulling force. We develop this through the beginning of our Lop Sau drill. Giving in is the starting stage and then, I feel, you have to really ‘crash’ into your opponent when they pull…driving that Bong elbow at their (sternum, ribs, face, pinning their arm, clearing the line, whatever presents itself, etc).
Best,
Kenton
vt doesnt always attack the attack. Sometimes we need to just block. Yes attack is better but this means that you are always better them ur opponent. Ie if pull is not hard you bong. If harder you bong and pivot, if really hard you must step. If you opponent has you wrist and keeps it down the note will allow you to block without lifting the wrist. The bong before this move when facing to the side is a striking bong or power bong but is stil not an attack. Just like kwon sao is a block until the tan sao becomes an attack and the bong should have been changed so you dont punch over your bong
[QUOTE=bennyvt;883655]i was taught the main use for the double low bong was when someone is grabbing and pulling you keeping your wrist down hence the bigger step this is to firmlte the force without having to be able to lift your wrist. But it is also the first time you are in the proper fighting stance. There are other but less used ideas[/QUOTE]
not what its for…
there is a primary idea based on the premise of attacking as the defense simultaneously.
Chum kil gives us a breakdown of certain actions we repeat due to the relatively complex nature of a non thinking response with more than a simple punch .
The focus is usually on the bong’s rather than the idea the bongs support… to make way for the vu-sao to strike from an angle along the centerline .
The body learns to pivot on its axis line delivering a balanced turning, shifting, stepping, sliding ability
to respond to and move with in harmony , an attacking action.
When we do the low bongs , it isnt an application, never was …
Once you have flanked a guyand you have a lead leg , either one [you cant dance to the side your opponent strikes ; ) ] you use a bong like any other.
…any other does the same thing , it displaces force-lines laterally to your centerline, so the vu-sao can deliver a response to continue your attacking actions…
So if I have managed to flank you and am now attacking forwards into your side, and you have managed to get an arm over mine or I have shifted to face another guy …I cant change feet or have to to deliver a bong while coming AT YOU.
The bongs force goes left to right or vice versa, not up/down or forwards …if I attack forwards I need to move your arm left or right as I step to strike …if I push forwards with the bong I push you away from my force /strike …If I want to jam you I use lan sao , not bong sao.
if you combine a bong to a line of force coming at you, you will displace it without thinking , as chi-sao ‘should’ have taught you…ie we x the line in chi-sao with bong wrists because we wont ever fight like a double extended hand drill of chi-sao , enabling us to be trapped…this is a redundant aspect of chi-sao training…
back to low bongs … when we use a 'facing ’ bong its only practiced in unison low to avoid high uneven neck cracking practice…the arms snap inwards forcefully and back to tan saos to train bong and back to elbows in hitting , as everything…
the step with the low bong is to imply we are attacking as we displace your arm…there is no further
action in the CK because we cant know whats going to result from the action…ergo , no kata.
it works in close proximity , when you vu-sao can extend to touch the target as well…in other words
I am only doing a bong sao in the speed of a ‘blink of an eye’ to be hitting you with the rear hand
…
If you attack forwards you have to have actions , incorporated in your attack that allows the force of the opponent to go ‘somewhere’ relative to your incoming attack lines…we use economy of motion to displace this incoming force along acute angles of the forearms as we strike , displace etc…
iow the bong displaces so we can regain the displacing strikes we have developed …tan allows the inward held elbow positions [outside of the forearms to strike from a vu-sao while lowering bong.]..it is trained on the dummy as kwan-sao but we dont turn away from an attacker this is only done on the dummy as if we have rotated from the previously done actions on the dummy…rotating through kwan to tan and jum [ tan & sideplam] …imagining if you didnt turn and step into the dummy and kept attacking along the wall the dummy is against, like chasing a guy along a cage …you would keep going after them…if they changed directions you would simply face their movements and fire…without thinking…if they X-ed your arm you would do a bong and back to hitting as you shifted attacking them…not to stand in front and turn their energy like chi-sao…this would place you in a even face off, they have 2 hands hitting you , not good 's
an example is to have a partner place an arm over your arm that would allow you to do a bong sao with it…stand facing roughly 45 * pick a side , as if you have put them ther or they over stepped to you etc…as you attacked from the side they tried to hit/grab you with …one leg should lead, doesnt matter once you are on the side because you will go in after them now…
take your arm thats xed and move the arm on top away from you sideways , sharply to a sudden stop…you should be trying to turn them so you have them with only one side able to respond ,
[ beware the spinning backfist ; ) ]…with the bong sao alone …alone …
like a pak sao slapping from side to side stopping sharply on your centerline making the contact point take the energy and shift…like a tennis racket hitting a ball but not following through when it reaches the centerline…the rear hand is always in the position to fire directly forwards …the chum kil contains many actions for this idea…jut , pak ,turning juts from bong sao, lateral shifting steps to close down on the defender…forwards displacing bongs to enable you to keep delivering an attack from any direction without allowing them a beat to attack back …its important to maintain this assault to deliver the idea…if you stop or break off because they placed an arm over yours , or simply stepped away from you …your attack has failed…
the science of in -fighting is to deliver an unstoppable unrelenting assault …without thinking… not
application 1 for this or if they grab do # 3…
… if they can walk up and grab your wrists low , question their and your fighting ability ; ) take that !!! a double low wrist grab , get out of that sucker !! lamfao…Oh yeah i have double low bong saos just for that !! to silly. Its implying that the techniques where developed with just that ONE thing in mind …
like the wrist grab removal using the sliding hand.[ tut sao ]..only a fool would believe this.
[QUOTE=bennyvt;883665]vt doesnt always attack the attack. Sometimes we need to just block. Yes attack is better but this means that you are always better them ur opponent. Ie if pull is not hard you bong. If harder you bong and pivot, if really hard you must step. If you opponent has you wrist and keeps it down the note will allow you to block without lifting the wrist. The bong before this move when facing to the side is a striking bong or power bong but is stil not an attack. Just like kwon sao is a block until the tan sao becomes an attack and the bong should have been changed so you dont punch over your bong[/QUOTE]
kwan isnt a block… in chi-sao world maybe . using kwan to fight one arm is an option , it covers the entry like a hi/lo gaun sao. but to use it facing and turning someone who doesnt turn with you and you just discovered why not to do it
Well that was a big explaination so ill have to have more time but on way to work, but firstly. saying things like, you “should” have learnt, tends to turn these things from a discusion to people having a go at each other.
Just quickly:
I never said that you would do two bong saos, I took it that it would be obvious to all that it would be used one at a time as I think most people realise that you dont hit two people next to you in the second section of SLT. I was not talking about any follow up movements with wu sao but simply saying what I learn is the most common use for the technique.
If stepping forward with the bong sao is at the right angle and is held in correct postion it should either move the attack to clear the centre or your body will move into the coresponding postion.
The bong should be pushed forward. It may move from the centre to inline with the shoulder but if you think about going around it tends to lead to the wrong movement. This may just be a case of differing terminology.
Kwan sao is a block, it is the movement of moving your hands into tan and bong and pivoting to negate too much force. Hence the kick in the dummy with kwan, as you dont want to just block. If the tan becomes an attack it is called something different, not good on the chinese but “bong Da”? I was always bad with the names but a bong with either a punch your plam coming over the top.
Completely breaking it down you can think of it as:
just to practice the step
Practice a low bong sao
Learn how to bong sao without raising the wrist
of any combination of hands to go with it.
I was just stating one main use for it, but using low bong and stepping forward into an attack when the wrist is held in a low position (with the back hand doing what ever you want), is a normal use for this technique, hence in chi sao when someone lap saos you hard you have to step forward.
The section before this with the bong to the side is a different stance with the feet being parrallel so it is not how you would be fighting someone if ront of you so the section with the double low bogs is the first that you are actually in a stance you should be in a fight after one step is taken.