I’m just curious from the people who visit here: what other systems do you consider to be internal, or an internal external mix? We are all familiar with the big three, taiji, xing I, ba gua, and lo he ba fa, or water boxing, and even cotton boxing. But what other internals is anyone studying?
I’m not looking for “every traditional Chinese martial art is internal at the highest levels” for an answer. Rather, specific examples from your training, and an explanation why you think it is an internal art.
I think you’ll see a lot of votes for Bajiquan. I don’t practice it, but from what I’ve seen it has a strong internal component. Oh, and given what I’ve read of Yi Chuan I think it makes the team also.
As for the comment that all chinese martial arts become internal, that’s obviously false. Most people have this notion that when a martial art is internal, it becomes this ultimate art where we can blast people away by tapping them with our fist. I think people get confused and should say that all chinese martial arts become really good at a high level. This means that an high level external martial artists can beat a high level internal artist and vice versa. But an external art cannot become internal just suddenly.
Anyway, to stay on topic, I went to my old teacher a few months back to talk and stuff. My old teacher, at that time, recently trained briefly with Ma XianDa and got to learn his flavor of his tongbei. Well, from his information and also from Yan Gao Fei’s article on Ma Family Tong Bei, it does seem that their brach of tong bei is the internal-external mix.
Here is the way Ma’s tong bei system generates their power. I’m just gonna copy and paste part of Yan’s article.
The chest exhibits large open and close movement with breathing synchronized (lungs/breathing and rib cage expansion/contraction are synchronized)
The whole spine (neck to tailbone) flexes (convex and concave)
Hip to heel rotation increases torque to generate rotating power
4.Body “up and down” movement increases momentum
Non-stop continuous movement corresponds with opponent’s power.
Those concept are simliar to internal arts because of the use of whole body power. Also it seems to have some sort of store and relase thing going. But it doesn’t seem to incorporate the six-harmonies movement and peng jing. But this is from my limited experience. Also, the article mentions that Ma’s tong bei is based on pigua. So pigua can be another external-internal mixed art.
Our footwork and mentality retains traces of old school Nei Jia principles.
For example, we have some of the “lost track” footwork of Mizhongquan and a circle walk not unlike Baguazhang and Tzuranmen. But there’s more to the system than simple evasive footwork, and we share many traits with other legitimate “Nei Jia” (as opposed to the nominal Sun Lu Tang grouping) combat methods.
The power training of the style is rooted in its hard/soft breath control and fast combat mentality. This is a FIGHTING style, not a demonstration one.
My own “Huang Style”, developed as an individualization of that which I’ve learned over the years, has many of the same combat drills and mentality of the true “Nei Jia” styles (e.g. circlewalk, body beating, etc. . . )
Yau Kung Mun is considered to be an internal system. It involves external forms that are based on Bak Mei to begin with and then the 3 highest level forms are pure internal. The first of which is Yau Kung Sup Batt Seurng Toi Jeung.
I may go back to it at some point, but Ki Aikido (as taught by my sensei) was pretty internal. The internal principles were not consciously understood by the class and not directly taught, but that is what the teacher was conveying none-the-less.
Not all Aikido is internal, most isn’t from what I have seen. But Ki Aikido is far “softer” and thus tries more internal for the power than other aikido I’ve seen. There probably are others, but I haven’t seen them yet.
Yes Bak Mei is White Eyebrow. I didn’t say Bak Mei is an internal system (though some do consider its upper levels to be internal or soft power) I said Yau Kung Mun was an internal system.
Zhong Yun Long breaks Wudang Zhang Sanfeng in to eight gates: taiji, xingyi, bagua, baji, ba shen (8 immortal), xuan gong men, liu he & jiu gong (nine palace.) He says that this is by no means comprehensive, but just how it is classified by his Wudang lineage.
Pak Mei is considered an internal/external system. Probably due to the influences of both Shaolin kung fu principles and and Taoist kung fu principles.
Wu Mei is supposed to be an internal/external system as well.
In reference to Waidan’s comment, I’ve also heard the Baji is an internal style.
This is just what I’ve picked up on doing some online research. So, don’t quote me on this.
Hi everyone!
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I can only offer my opinion based on “my” experiences.. Whenever the art comes from “within”, that is to say whenever there is no thought initiating the movements/responses, then i sense that the art is internalized.. yet, i don’t think that, alone, makes an art internal.. I think that internal refers to a comprehensive understanding of “who/what we are”.. understanding the mind/body/spirit relationship and drawing our power from each of those aspects.. Internal, to me, is whenever our training leads us to that place where we recognize that the training was just the key that opens the door, we come face to face with the real potential of being “alive”.. It’s kind of like when the scientisits unlocked the power of the atom.. such a tiny particle, such enormous power..
Not every MA is designed to express internal awareness, but most can be adapted to do so.. Hard, linear, joint-snapping styles break the rythmic flow essential for expressing internal power, but.. with proper attention could probably be adapted to flow and still preserve the signature movements of the style..
What makes the art internal? The dedication, perseverance and quality of instruction of the individual..Internal cannot be confined to an exclusive few secret styles (yet, it is most evident in the few styles that have dedicated their art to fully explore how the body, mind, spirit express “energy”) .. Internal, like the Tao that it represents, is a deeper awareness of what it means to “live”.. What makes an art “internal”?.. it s observable prowess as a martial art.. its total understanding of life, and the quest of the practicioner to master it.. Mercy and “benevolence” (i like that concept, benevolence)…
What makes an Art “internal”?.. The teacher, the practicioner, the principle of harmony between body, mind and spirit..
Just another perspective fron the Farside.. Be well..
Imho, any system–health exercise or fighting art–that utilizes an active store and a passive release is internal.
Assuming I’ve understood things correctly, effort is used to store power (active) in certain muscles but the release of stored power power happens by letting other certain muscles go (passive), sort of like a bow.
Certain muscles/tendons act as the frame whereas other muscles act as the drawstring (and the hand that pulls the drawstring).
I don’t remember which book I read it in, but I remember reading that it should feel like there are (springy) steel bands within your body.
What makes an art internal is herbs, meditations, chi kung the fast forms is to release the ging that comes from internally outwards for fighting and help with fitness that internal wont give. So i believe all arts must have YAU KUNG, soft and hard powers, training of the body to keep it balanced.
