OT: The Problem with prisons.

Martial Media, Culture and Other Arts Off Topic
1

The problem with prisons is that they serve no purpose (expect making money) beyond removing criminals from society. This system wouldn’t be such a bad one except they aren’t very good at it and tend to let the criminals back into society.

The assumption being that their “time out” will be punishment enough to convince them that their criminal behavior isn’t very cost effective.

For those few whose criminal activities were based on ignorance, carelessness, accident, or extreme emotion, that “time out” may be enough for them to pull their head out of their ass.

But for the rest, who knowing the consequences make a conscious decision to commit a crime, a “time out” will not produce any kind of rehabilitation. For career criminals, they have weighed the risk/reward balance sheet and keep coming up with rewards.

This points to two major problems with the “corrections” system.

One, the threat of punishment is not severe enough to deter criminal behavior.

Two, there is a serious lack of correction in the “corrections” system.

Those we don’t want in our society ever again should be “punished” by never letting them out. (Violent offender convicted multiple times should be killed, that should eliminate any miscarriage of justice.;)) Make it quick and cheep too.

Those we do intend to let back should be given a serious effort at rehabilitation.

To make the punishment more severe without being too harsh, a value judgment that few will ever agree on. We should do more to remove prisoners from society. No parole for violent offenders, if anyone. No phone calls, no letters, no visits, except from their lawyer. Some gang leaders use these methods to order criminal activities, even through their lawyers. :rolleyes: No weights, for gods sakes. :eek: No TV’s, or personal items of any kind. No beds they can have mat on the floor, and an Asian style hole for a toilet. This will mean fewer items to make weapons out of. Every prisoner should be in solitary confinement. :eek: Prisoners should be chemically castrated and/or given other calming medications. Violence, including sexual assault, is rampant. Prisoners are forced to ally with groups of their own race, and commit violence on the groups behalf to survive. Leading nonviolent and violent criminals to become more violent and antisocial.

Violent offenders are released to make way for nonviolent first time offenders, and most people, if they survive the prison experience, are worse off when they get out.

For rehabilitation, Nonviolent offenders should not be housed with violent offenders. The prisons should be segregated by offense, gang affiliations, and race, and they should be confined to smaller populations. Soothing tai chi music, depak chopra, etc should be played 24/7. Uniforms should be pink with hello kitties on them. Instead of basketball and weight lifting for exercise, they should be offered emasculating exercises :stuck_out_tongue: like yoga, Pilate’s, maybe a bike that goes no where. First time non-violent offenders should not be sent to prison but to a rehabilitation center. psychological counseling should be made available, to those without personality disorders. Education, GED and 2 year vocational degrees should be made available, and early release or parole should be made conditional on the completion of a rehabilitation program.

Would it cost more. Intitially yes. In the long run probably about the same. :rolleyes:

2

Cruel and unusual.

3

What we let them do to each other in prison is cruel. Throwing everyone into a shark tank is cruel. Insulting someones dignity is not cruel, unless your an ultra liberal, Then I apologize if I hurt your little feelings.

As for unusual. :rolleyes: it’s only a matter of precedent and what is usual is a condition that can be changed. As long as it is the same for everyone it’s pretty usual. It is meant to say that we punish people the same way.

4

“Four walls are three too many”

5

I’m all for some sort of involvement of the victims or their family or whatever. Ultimately they are the ones who need some sort of closure/retribution/revenge or whatever.
I don’t know any diddlers or rapists but I generally believe these people need to be put down…or any kind of psychotic person that will just not get better: many diddlers are just screwed up mentally: damaged goods. They let these people out onto the streets and send warnings to everyone to beware: why not just kill the *******s?

6

if you want to excute criminals let family of victim do it themself
if they cant do it let guy live

7

[QUOTE=bawang;923371]if you want to excute criminals let family of victim do it themself
if they cant do it let guy live[/QUOTE]

Thats the best idea I heard all day. Your a little violent and twisted, but the philosophy is sound.:slight_smile:

8

You are right. Here in Texas the strongest industry is that of building prisons. Mostly our youth are in them. They are starting to have these little boot camps for youth that are not quite gone yet. When I was a youth they had the military draft. Everyone got a chance to hit boot camp eventually. It did wonders for young people that had problems with authority and self behavior. Now they just graduate or drop out of school and go to selling dope or robbing.
There are many measures that can be taken to alter behaviors in prisons, but we have so many laws that harp against this. Nothing cruel or unusual can be perpetrated against an inmate. Have you watched any of the prison shows on TV? They can act out in any way they want and expect to not be physically punished for it. They put lifers in with short timers and expect them not to take advantage of them. The odds of a person serving a short stint and getting out is almost none existant. Someone will draw him out and make him figt for his life or his ass, and any sort of altercation, even in self defence will get you additional time. A guard gets mad at you he puts you into a cell with a male rapist that is certain to want to beat you to death. They allow gangs to operate, and just about anything that they get by with on the streets they get by with in prison.
I think anyone that is dealt a life sentance should undergo a review to see if they are worth trying to rehibilitate and if not they should be made into dog or cat food. I do not believe in rehibilitatin myself, and anyone that is a lifer represents a life long expence to the tax payers of the state, so should be used up in a way that can be turned into funding. Like making dog and cat food of them.

9

I’m more for rehabilitation and actual efforts towards that as opposed to retribution. Punishment brings little when it is carried out in a protracted way such as captivity and control.

In that scenario, it breeds resentment and recidivism.

What we feel in our guts is not always the right thing to do in the big picture.

10

In the grand scheme of things long term imprisonment is a rather recent development. In the 19th century and earlier there were prisons but mostly it was for short timers and people waiting execution.

I’m not really sure it works.

11

[QUOTE=Lee Chiang Po;923383]You are right. Here in Texas the strongest industry is that of building prisons…

{SNIP!}

I think anyone that is dealt a life sentance should undergo a review to see if they are worth trying to rehibilitate and if not they should be made into dog or cat food. I do not believe in rehibilitatin myself, and anyone that is a lifer represents a life long expence to the tax payers of the state, so should be used up in a way that can be turned into funding. Like making dog and cat food of them.[/QUOTE]

Surprisingly close to my own view(s)… I’ve even gone to the extent of postulating an “accounting-based” (dollars and cents) method of arriving at the final “disposition”.
Of course, this doesn’t mean that I regard prisoners as “chattel”…
more like “societal liabilities”.

12

The problem with prisons is that they serve no purpose (expect making money) beyond removing criminals from society. This system wouldn’t be such a bad one except they aren’t very good at it and tend to let the criminals back into society.

The assumption being that their “time out” will be punishment enough to convince them that their criminal behavior isn’t very cost effective.

For those few whose criminal activities were based on ignorance, carelessness, accident, or extreme emotion, that “time out” may be enough for them to pull their head out of their ass.

But for the rest, who knowing the consequences make a conscious decision to commit a crime, a “time out” will not produce any kind of rehabilitation. For career criminals, they have weighed the risk/reward balance sheet and keep coming up with rewards.

This points to two major problems with the “corrections” system.

One, the threat of punishment is not severe enough to deter criminal behavior.

Two, there is a serious lack of correction in the “corrections” system.

Those we don’t want in our society ever again should be “punished” by never letting them out. (Violent offender convicted multiple times should be killed, that should eliminate any miscarriage of justice.) Make it quick and cheep too.

Those we do intend to let back should be given a serious effort at rehabilitation.

To make the punishment more severe without being too harsh, a value judgment that few will ever agree on. We should do more to remove prisoners from society. No parole for violent offenders, if anyone. No phone calls, no letters, no visits, except from their lawyer. Some gang leaders use these methods to order criminal activities, even through their lawyers. No weights, for gods sakes. No TV’s, or personal items of any kind. No beds they can have mat on the floor, and an Asian style hole for a toilet. This will mean fewer items to make weapons out of. Every prisoner should be in solitary confinement. Prisoners should be chemically castrated and/or given other calming medications. Violence, including sexual assault, is rampant. Prisoners are forced to ally with groups of their own race, and commit violence on the groups behalf to survive. Leading nonviolent and violent criminals to become more violent and antisocial.

Violent offenders are released to make way for nonviolent first time offenders, and most people, if they survive the prison experience, are worse off when they get out.

For rehabilitation, Nonviolent offenders should not be housed with violent offenders. The prisons should be segregated by offense, gang affiliations, and race, and they should be confined to smaller populations. Soothing tai chi music, depak chopra, etc should be played 24/7. Uniforms should be pink with hello kitties on them. Instead of basketball and weight lifting for exercise, they should be offered emasculating exercises like yoga, Pilate’s, maybe a bike that goes no where. First time non-violent offenders should not be sent to prison but to a rehabilitation center. psychological counseling should be made available, to those without personality disorders. Education, GED and 2 year vocational degrees should be made available, and early release or parole should be made conditional on the completion of a rehabilitation program.

Would it cost more. Intitially yes. In the long run probably about the same.

Wow, you’ve just got it all figured out.
Being as smart as you are, you should take your views to some of the major political networks. :rolleyes:

Oh right, what are your qualifications again?

Any professional experience with the political system?

Any professional experience in criminal psychology?

Any professional experience with law enforcement? Or criminal law?

No see, the problem with prisons are we’re imprisoning a good majority of people for the wrong reasons. The War on Drugs is a ridiculous waste of time, money and energy. Not only that, but the people we’re imprisoning who went to jail for, for instance, selling marijuana (B. F. D.), are in a horrible position to get any kind of decent job when they get out of jail.

Then our system of law has become so incredibly complex that it is impossible to get any kind of decent representation without a lot of money. That means the poor who ARE innocent, will likely go to jail simply because of incompetent representation. The poor who ARE guilty, but are guilty of LESSER crimes, will go to jail for LONGER because of incompetent representation.

As for violent offenders, usually there is a psychological reason behind it. Sometimes they can be rehabilitated, sometimes they can’t. Usually its circumstance. From a psychological perspective, Rapists and child molesters are less likely to be “evil” people, and more likely to be “sick” people, whose circumstances growing up, caused them to be the way they are.

Other violent offenses, such as shootings and assaults, are usually gang conflicts - And the world of being a gang member is a far different one than the world me and you live in. There are special considerations that need to be addressed. Plenty of gang members are forced into the lifestyle and the shootings, the fights, the stabbing and such are the only way they know how to live. The best thing for them would probably be to SEPARATE them from any gang affiliations in prison, instead of grouping them together as such.

Anyways, the point is, I’m glad people like you, don’t make the laws.

But then again, I’m not so happy with the people who do, either. But I’m sure as hell not educated enough to change it, or to even understand if there is a BETTER way to do things, which would take an extreme understanding of all factors involved. Because its all give and take. The most ideal sounding ideas are usually the most unrealistic ones.

13

[QUOTE=AdrianK;923454]Wow, you’ve just got it all figured out.
Being as smart as you are, you should take your views to some of the major political networks. :rolleyes:

Oh right, what are your qualifications again?

Any professional experience with the political system?

Any professional experience in criminal psychology?

Any professional experience with law enforcement? Or criminal law? [/QUOTE]

So the only people who should have opinions on anything are experts in the field?

What’s funny though is that you make the above statement, then you give your opinion, then you say the following:

[QUOTE=AdrianK;923454]I’m sure as hell not educated enough to change it, or to even understand if there is a BETTER way to do things[/QUOTE]

14

So the only people who should have opinions on anything are experts in the field?

You can have opinions on anything.

But a specific reform of the prison system without a proper understanding of any of these things, is ridiculous.

What’s funny though is that you make the above statement, then you give your opinion, then you say the following:

I was trying to make the point that while I have an understanding of some things, none of us here are qualified to have a legitimate opinion on these things.

Why? Well, even if you were able to, somehow, through your genius, understand everything without ever being a professional in any of these fields - It would still take a hell of a lot more thought and effort, than a simple post.

These things take months, sometimes years of hammering things out with experts in the fields.

Theres a reason for that.

15

Wow, you’ve just got it all figured out.

I posted to invite discussion. That’s what forums do, they discuss. :rolleyes:

No see, the problem with prisons are we’re imprisoning a good majority of people for the wrong reasons. Blah blah blah The poor who ARE guilty, but are guilty of LESSER crimes, will go to jail for LONGER because of incompetent representation.

I don’t disagree. Less a problem with prisons and more a problem with the court system.

As for violent offenders, usually there is a psychological reason behind it.

Again, and I advocated counseling. Where do you see the disagreement? If you have a good rehabilitation program in place and they go through it and still come back, then obviously we can’t fix’m, so why not fry’m? :confused:

Plenty of gang members are forced into the lifestyle and the shootings, the fights, the stabbing and such are the only way they know how to live. The best thing for them would probably be to SEPARATE them from any gang affiliations in prison, instead of grouping them together as such.

How do you suppose we separate them from any gang affiliations in prison? Gang members make up over half of the population is some prisons.

at least by placing them only in population where they all share the same affiliations there will be no Intra-gang violence.

Anyways, the point is, I’m glad people like you, don’t make the laws.

Yes because,
Placing First time offenders in rehabilitation programs instead of jail.
Offering better rehabilitation to those who do go to jail.
Discouraging aggressive behaviors, and protecting prisoners from each other.
And keeping the unreachable out of society.

Are all horrible ideas. :rolleyes:

Please point out the specific items you disagree with so I can confirm your reading comprehension.

16

^

One, the threat of punishment is not severe enough to deter criminal behavior.

No parole for violent offenders, if anyone. No phone calls, no letters, no visits, except from their lawyer.

No weights, for gods sakes. No TV’s, or personal items of any kind.

Every prisoner should be in solitary confinement.

Prisoners should be chemically castrated and/or given other calming medications.

The second half of your post I agreed with.
But its this first half thats very extreme.

17

[QUOTE=AdrianK;923475]You can have opinions on anything.

But a specific reform of the prison system without a proper understanding of any of these things, is ridiculous.

I was trying to make the point that while I have an understanding of some things, none of us here are qualified to have a legitimate opinion on these things.
[/QUOTE]

How old are you?

The post you addressed was pure opinion and suggestions. Everyone is qualified to have a legitimate opinion on anything.

I have no problem with that but I do have a problem with your post:

[QUOTE=AdrianK;923475]Other violent offenses, such as shootings and assaults, are usually gang conflicts [/QUOTE]

That is total BS. If not I would like to see the back up for it.

18

One, the threat of punishment is not severe enough to deter criminal behavior.

Well it is not.

http://new.music.yahoo.com/blogs/hiphopmediatraining/47509/dmx-adopts-pink-prison-wardrobe/

Requiring male prisoners to wear pink undergarments is emasculating, but listening to DMX talk about going to jail as if it is a hangout spot is not fine either.

Since so many repeat offenders are all to willing to go back to jail, we should make jail less appealing. If the purpose of jail is to take away their freedom, and we as a society are ok with that. Then the only way to make it more of a punishment would be to take away more freedoms.

No parole for violent offenders, if anyone.

What good is the threat of jail if you don’t have to stay in it.

No phone calls, no letters, no visits, except from their lawyer.

Many prisons use the contacts with the outside to continue to conduct illegal activities, and to smuggle in contraband that puts other prisoners at risk.

No weights, for gods sakes.

Buy letting prisoners engage in competitive sports and activities that encourage aggression, we are not helping them reform. Let them exercise sure but in a way that is more peaceful.

No TV’s, or personal items of any kind.

Do you let your kids watch TV when they are grounded. What kind of punishment is sending you kids to their room when all their toy are there. Not to mention that they use those personal items to make weapons and incite violence.

Every prisoner should be in solitary confinement.

I would much rather spend my time in jail alone than being butt raped and stabbed. Isolating them from each other would limit their ability to perform acts of violence on each other.

Prisoners should be chemically castrated and/or given other calming medications.

The effects of the meds only last for as long as you take them, so when you get out you go back to normal. If you went to jail for white collar crime, you’d want buba to not be able to ass rape you. Or would you? :eek::confused:

19

make tai chi and qigong mandatory for all prisoners
lol

20

[QUOTE=bawang;923502]make tai chi and qigong mandatory for all prisoners
lol[/QUOTE]

Have you seen the prison shows on cable?These guys can turn a plastic bag into a shank.You give them tai chi and they’ll do what most teachers in the u.s. cant do…figure out how to use it for combat:eek:.