in the United States, we were
founded as a nation that practiced slavery,
and slaves quite frequently were killed even
though they were innocent," s aid Mr.
Clinton in a speech to nearly 1,000 students
at Georgetown University’s ornate Gaston
Hall.
¬†Â¬†Â¬†Â¬†Â¬†"This country once looked the other way
when a signi ficant number of native
Americans were dispossessed and killed to
get their land or their mineral rights or
because they were thought of as less than
fully hum an.
¬†Â¬†Â¬†Â¬†Â¬†“And we are still paying a price today,”
said Mr. Clinton, who was invited to address the students by the university’s
School of Forei gn Service.
-My response:
I’ve never owned, or was a slave, and a large percentage of our forefathers weren’t wealthy enough to own
one either. So, please stop blaming me because some prior white people were i diots-and remember,
tons of white, Indian, Chinese, and other races have been enslaved too. It was wrong for every one of
them.
I find it ironic that a former president who was impeached, commited adultry and had his license to practice law suspended, is permitted to speak at a facility such as Georgetown University. Not to mention the fact he was a draft dodger. He is the perfect role model…that is if you want your children growing up as cowards and/or liars. I think the only good thing about this is that a public opinion poll finally did not determine what words came out of his mouth. It makes me sick to think that 9/11 might have been prevented if he would have had the cojones to take out Bin Laden when he had a chance.
Sorry to rant, but the true effects that this man had on our country will probably not be fully realized for a few more years.
Victory goes to he who makes the next-to-last mistake.
Badger - actually, the beef is not so much with you personally, but with America’s actions as a country and the fact that the Native American genocide and slavery were both legal and officially-sanctioned policies. (Not to open another can of worms, since slavery in particular had others to blame than just the US - as it takes more than one to tango - but I digress…)
BTW, I wonder: Do Native Americans celebrate Thanksgiving? Or is that more a day of mourning for them? Does anyone here know?
after he ordered the destruction of an aspirin factory on the basis of CIA and military intelligence reports. The same agencies that listed the Red Cross warehouses as military targets.
Could Clinton have taken a more active role in opposing terrorism? Sure. But he was blasted for what he did do and most people were pretty happy about the reductions in military spending which helped ower the debt which helped lower interest rates which helped maintain the longest boom economy in the 20th century.(Talk about run-on)
And if you want to point fingers at presidents for things they couldn’t control, for things that only in hindsight and with rather weak causality arguments can we tie to them, for anything you can think of…why is that Palestinian/Israeli violence terrorism with Palestinian ties has increased in the past year? Oh that’s right, we have a president who has demonstrated a noted lack of interest in the middle east peace process. An american oil family has reassumed the white house and demonstrated that our primary interest is oil concerns and not peace, justice or human lives.
Previous statement is ridiculous and offensive with a tiny grain of truth in there. No, I don’t think this Bush’s fault; that’s ludicrous. But the way many of you felt after reading that is the way I feel when I listen to people blame Clinton for everything from the decay of the moral fiber of the nation to the batboy scare in India. He’s no longer president. He wasn’t the greatest president in human history. He wasn’t the worst. He wasn’t the most honest.(I’d argue not the least either) Point is he’s out of office now. Let it go
sweet mother of chr*st!!!
he was wearing an orange tie with a grey suit, and was 45 mins late?!?! - sure signs that he is smoking crack! - and the native american reference leads me to believe he was smoking it in a joint, mixed with pot.
I still believe thats between the slaves & slave owners who are all dead. So why beat a dead horse?
As far as American Indians celebrating Thanksgiving well I do know of Apaches & Cherokee who do.
I wonder if British people who live in the US celebrate Independence Day?
BTW- Liberal or Conservative,Thank you for being civil.
now thats a completely different kettle of fish. That man is recognised as unbalanced and therefore one probably doesn’y have to put spin on any of his speeches, they just come out naturally insulting to others and offensive. I find him to be a very bad advert for Christianity.
True enough and I tend to agree with you that reparations for long past wrongs really aren’t valid in many ways. Which sort of supports the Palestinian argument. 2000 years ago the Israelis left. 53 years ago, the west(primarily US, UK & France) took back the land from the Palestinians and gave it to the Israelis. We tried to right 2 millenia of persecution by forcing out another group. And no, I wasn’t alive when that deal was brokered but it is still a far more legit greivance than the Isaelis’ in my mind.
And yeah, forcing people to look at those colors in combo while you give a speech is indeed evil.
Thank god, he is no longer in a position for his evil fashion sense to taint our youth. Whew!
“I’ve never owned, or was a slave, and a large percentage of our forefathers weren’t wealthy enough to own one either. So, please stop blaming me because some prior white people were i diots-and remember, tons of white, Indian, Chinese, and other races have been enslaved too. It was wrong for every one of them.”
Badger: but he’s not blaming you, he saying that we’re still “paying a price” for the actions of the slaveowners, and we are.
As for the “never owned slaves” argument, have you ever reaped the benefits of the slave system? Not to beat a dead horse, but when one looks at congress, does one see the melting pot that is America, or do we see a lot of white guys, a much smaller percentage of women, minorities, etc? I’m a white guy, and I know I have much higher representation than anyone else in my society. I find it hard to believe that this is not a carryover from the days of slavery and discrimination.
[This message was edited by KC Elbows on 11-14-01 at 09:28 AM.]
I still believe thats between the slaves & slave owners who are all dead. So why beat a dead horse?" - Badger
Well, the problem is that the slavery policies were nationally-sanctioned and institutionalized. Thus, America as a nation CAN fairly be held accountable, at least as much if not more than the individual slave-owners themselves, who were just being “good citizens” and abiding by the law.
And is it really a dead horse if they’ve not been compensated with a real apology or otherwise? Then again, some might argue that’s what welfare and affirmative action are to some degree. I mean, surely many of their free ancestral kinfolk are doing even worse in Africa right now!
So, no - I’m not suggesting reparations (for various reasons). Anyways, this topic can turn very long and endless, so I don’t really want to go there at this point!
“I still believe thats between the slaves & slave owners who are all dead. So why beat a dead horse?”
good point, but I dont think Slick Willy was trying to lay a guilt trip on us, just pointing out an obvious fact.
This has been a remarkably balanced thread, and I dont want to start a war, but I have one thing to add here, and let me state that i am NOT for reperations or anything of the ilk. I, like Budokan, live in Mississippi, and it wasnt that long ago that Jim Crow laws were in full effect.
I am 32 years old and still remember as a child seeing KKK members(in full costume) at intersections taking donations. Firends my age, who are black, have parents and grandparents who were nor allowed into college or into certain businesses simply because of their skin color.
Again, I am not for reperations , but the effects of racial discrimination didnt magically disappear after the Civil War. I also dont feel guilt about slavery (my family was all poor white trash, and barely made enough money to feed themselves, much less own slaves). But I think its dangerous to forget the past, especially a past that is so recent .
“You guys have obviously never done any real fighting if you are mocking spitting”
Spinning Backfist
Maybe the best thing to do would be to repatriot all people who decended from slaves, since they didn’t want to come over. After that we can return all those of us who were forced over by famine or war, lived in poverty and were used by the rich as cheap labor. It shouldn’t matter how we benefited in the long run, if we didn’t want to be here to begin with we should all be sent home.
:mad:
Signed,
Rogue, Soke and Senior Grandmaster of Southeast American Brazillian Bagua Combat Chi jitsu Kempo Karate Do and Choral Society.
The only tactical principle which is not subject to change; it is, “To use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."
Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country.
Good points of view even though they are somewhat different…
Which is why I put up this thread. I like to hear different views on what everyone thinks about certain things.
The discrimination that went on in our past was very sad indeed.We should never forget it or repeat it.I do not owe anyone a living nor does anyone owe me a living. Time to move forward.