techniques that occupy two hands before the finish
[QUOTE=iunojupiter;1163746] I’m satisfied with the speed of my hands, but I don’t imagine they’re quick enough to come back from a setback like that and defend effectively.[/QUOTE]
Do you not train any of the following?
‘go lou cai’
‘cai san shou’
‘shuang feng shou’
‘tou zhan di lou’
‘tiao bao chui’
‘tiao bao cha chui’
‘tiao bu chui’
‘mo pan shou’
‘tou zhan’
‘deng pu’
‘deng ta’
[QUOTE=xiao yao;1163793]its not really leaving you open as the opponents arm is pressed against the body, the power of the press should be enough to knock the opponent back, which is immediately followed up with an attack.[/QUOTE]
That is precisely how I feel.
[QUOTE=Tainan Mantis;1163812]Do you not train any of the following?
‘go lou cai’
‘cai san shou’
‘shuang feng shou’
‘tou zhan di lou’
‘tiao bao chui’
‘tiao bao cha chui’
‘tiao bu chui’
‘mo pan shou’
‘tou zhan’
‘deng pu’
‘deng ta’[/QUOTE]
go lou cai
I know for sure that I’ve practiced that, but even then, they’re all independent movements. You’re not doing any two actions at the same time that occupy both hands. While one is doing go, lou, or cai, the other is free to defend.
As for the others, I may have practiced them, but have never memorized the names. (I’m a horrible student in that regard).
While I agree in theory with you and xiao yao about the press being enough to cause the body alignment to block the other arm, my personal concern is if they are able to negate my seal and still have their other arm free to hit me, my two hands/arms are now occupied trying to control their one.
I think the reason I have a problem with a double seal or a double pluck or a double anything on one opponents extremity is that my teacher is very skilled at chen taiji and committing two hands/arms to one of his is like suicide 
Like I said, it’s me with the issue. I don’t think the technique is invalid or anything.
[QUOTE=xiao yao;1163792]zhan stick
nian adhere
bang double handed press/push
tie lean (body to body contact)
lai approaching
jiao provoking
shun moving along
song moving against
ti lift
na grab
feng seal
bi close[/QUOTE]
Thank you!
These are the same as the ones Su Yu Zhang lists for his Mimen Tanglangquan.
Would you equate shun “moving along” with “yielding”?
I think yielding is pretty much the same thing. I dont understand all the 12 words thoroughly, Im going through them one by one analysing each one.
Today I talked to master zhou about Jiao. Jiao literally means “to call” and he likened it to “knocking on the door to make someone answer” for example if we take the opponents arms to be their door, then we can use jabs or prods to their guard to make them attack. another example is swift parries against the opponents attacks. this would be followed by Bi “to close the door”, whereby you close your guard (like the way the hands move after hopping back from a yuan yang jiao)
Thank you!
Great explanation of “jiao”.
shun and song seem to be couplets. One deals with yielding, the other with standing firm or clashing. Is this on target?
Those two Im not sure about. I took the English translation from a post of mantis quarterly. I assume as Song in everyday use means “to see somebody off” or “accompany somebody” that it would mean to force the opponent away and to follow them with attacks as they retreat. Does that sound about right?